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How many use hand ques on marks?

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Chris' response to the retired gun thread started me thinking about hand ques on marks.

For those that use them, what are they and what specifically are they used for (long bird, short bird, retired gun, etc.)?
 

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dogs

With a younger dog on retired marks, they way that I like to handle them is; when the dog returns with duck in mouth, I receive them lined up on the retired bird. Before I take the duck from his mouth, I will put my hand down and say, "mark", as a reminder that there is a mark laying out there. When his eyes are locked into the area of the fall, I'll take the bird from his mouth, make sure he is still looking at the area of the fall and release him verbally by his name.
 

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I use the hand as cue for long birds retired or not, as confirmation before sending on blinds, and before sending on the go bird.

I don't use it for shorter marks.
 

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Jesse Higgins said:
Hand cues on marks......
For those that use them, what are they and what specifically are they used for (long bird, short bird, retired gun, etc.)?
Retired only for me, short or long doesn't matter (voice inflection for that). It's just my own little system, like 2 sided heeling. Whatever works for ya.

Problem is what if I send the dog to a Pro and he's one sided with hand as go bird release. Whose gonna change ???? Me, dog, or Pro ??? Guess. :lol:
 

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NO hand ques on any marks.

I want the dog's eyes glued to the spot where the bird is and don't want to risk having even an eye flinch away from that spot by my hand over the head.

I use voice ques and push/pull to line up the dog's body straight on line to the bird and then I lean to look over the dog's head to make sure the eyes and nose are looking out on the same line.

My voice ques in training are used to key the dog on that type of mark before the marks are launched - "easy - easy - easy" in a soft crooning voice for those short inbirds and "big bird - big bird" in a more stern, animated voice for the long birds (retired or not). Then use the same voice que and tone when lining up for the marks. Send comments are similar . . . soft tone for short marks, medium tone for medium marks, and loud tone for long marks.

Blinds are similiar. NO hand ques over the head to show the dog the blind. Voice ques and push/pull to get the dog lined up and look out at some spot they will be running to. Voice ques for short blinds would be a soft "easy" for the lining up and soft tone to send and for long ones a louder "way back" for the lining up and a louder tone for the send.

You might see me put my hand down over the top of the dog's head just before the send but this is more of a crutch for me than a que for the the dog. The hand is so far back that is doesn't distract the dog's eyes. The fingers are usuallly just reaching the topknot of the head as I give the send command. It really is more of a quirk that I've always done and can't seem to give up entirely.

Debbie
 

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For me that really depends, on the dog, situation, and conditions. I definitely use, and not use a hand cue sometimes, but consistently always sometimes! :wink:
 

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I have a "judging" question concerning this subject. I'm parphrasing because I don't have the rule book in front of me, I'm also referring to AKC HTs (and to some extent HRC/NAHRA). When running multiple marks excessive lining on the memory bird(s) can count against you as far as memory goes. (Like my parphrasing?) I know of several occassions where I've heard judge's even make a comment to this affect. Anyway, say dog returns from the go bird, and "lines up" toward the general area of the next bird but you know your dog is not really lined up, this is because you know your dog and how to read him but it is obvious that he knows where the bird is, so you attempt to line him either by hand cues or push/pull....let's say the dog responds quickly to your adjustments that would be no big deal, but say you have a dog that is WIRED and it takes a little longer to adjust, how would you judge that, would you mark the dog down on memory?? Would you take into acount handler error for fussing too long?? Would you take into account the dog showed that you knew there was a mark down and the general area of the mark and that he his wired tight??

Hopes this makes sense....

FOM
 

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Let me start off by saying that I can't put down in words *my* definition of excessive lining, I just know it when I see it.

When I judge and see excessive lining, I will make a note of it in my book for future reference to see if this activity occurred on every mark or which specific ones. If, during this excessive lining, there comes a point when my mind says "Come on, send the dog" and make an extra note of this.

I can only judge what I see and take that into consideration in marking my book. If I'm not the judge signaling the birds, I can concentrate more on the dog and handler and make notes if the dog didn't look toward a bird fall or gave the impression it wasn't following the fall of the bird.

It isn't up to me to speculate on the handler's reasoning for doing the excessive lining - thought the dog didn't get a good look at it, thought is was a difficult mark for the dog, that's the way he does it all the time in training.

Even if I had noted during the shooting of the marks that the dog didn't see a particular bird down, and then the handler started excessive lining on the same bird, I still can't believe that if the dog can't be lined up and sent within say 15-20 seconds, that another 30, 45 or more seconds is going to change the animals mind.

With my dog, this excessive lining only scrambles her mind to the point where she is convinced I've completely lost my mind. I try to get her as close to the line of the mark as quickly as possible and then correct as necessary to get the mark.
 

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Having never judged a hunt test but have run them, my general preference is to judge what the dog does in the field and not worry about the handler's actions. To mark, your dog has to know the direction to run and also how far to run. Excessive lining may help get your dog pointed in the right direction, but if the dog doesn't know how far to go, it will be obvious. Judge what the dog does not what the handler does (with the usual caveats about things like intimidation, touching the dog, etc.) I think it would be hard to get a dog to do a passable job on the marks if you had to excessively line each memory bird. If a handler had to help the dog on a mark or two by working with the dog on line, I say, "hey, good teamwork", the dog had to sort out how far to go.

John
 
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