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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am helping a friend find a puppy. I saw a litter and the Dam was listed on Hunting Lab Pedigree as:

CNM: Clear By Parentage
EIC: Clear By Parentage

While I am pretty sure EIC can be confirmed as clear by parentage, I am not sure about CNM. Can someone let me know about both?

And at any rate, it feels as though the person breeding their female is just being cheap and lazy. It isn't that hard or expensive to get those tests done.
 

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I don't understand the clear by parentage thing. Testing for EIC and CNM is extremely easy and relatively cheap when it comes to the cost of a litter. Where else would a breeder cut corners if they aren't willing to test the Dam?
 

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Can you look up the parents and confirm their status? Otherwise, unless the “clear by parentage” dog is one I bred and I know for sure, I would want the sire and dam of a potential pup

Meredith
Exactly! They probably want the going price also.
As far as CNM technically it’s the same but the original testing facility in France would not issue the “clear by parentage” designation without actual testing long time ago when they were the only ones testing. I see it as a red flag and would keep looking. I personally repeated all testing before breeding on dogs I purchased, especially if the testing was done on dew claws because of the possibility of cross contamination.
 
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I am helping a friend find a puppy. I saw a litter and the Dam was listed on Hunting Lab Pedigree as:

CNM: Clear By Parentage
EIC: Clear By Parentage

While I am pretty sure EIC can be confirmed as clear by parentage, I am not sure about CNM. Can someone let me know about both?

And at any rate, it feels as though the person breeding their female is just being cheap and lazy. It isn't that hard or expensive to get those tests done.
Now don't take me as an expert in anything !! and I certainly ain't a vet or someone who scores or examines any results from a vet or radiographer ,
and before any vet or someone on here has like millions of ribbons or bred zillions of dogs and I'm sure the same is this side of the pond with health tests and all those recorded on affiliated web sites of 'Kennel club' cross pond and global...I'm pretty sure if you keep on testing for something you will eventually find it somewhere ..just because you keep testing for it . It may or may not surprise you that the UK recently changed the registration of 'hereditary clear' by parentage to second line ? ..big U-Turn ? , previously it was a given , and a free passport -----for breeding/selling pups of progeny , especially if the sire or dam just won something 'in competition' ? Ya beauty ..get that breeding going ..lolx
The elbow score is actually a recent (last 10 years) in Retrievers , following (Hip) for like ...? well, if the breeders ain't bred that out what's the point ? eh? ...Yea, is the answer ..Your breeder in question is most probably and these days most definitely using 'quite rightly' the best most recent buzz words and selling technique to sell dogs and most people are buying them 'Globally' ...just like a pup from a ftch winning Dog or Dam , but there are fewer 'Dams'.. lolx ps I have a Retriever Dog not won any ribbons because it hasn't been entered in any competitions ! two years old, expert in the shooting field because it has been in the shooting field , I have a retriever Dam who has not won any ribbons , well, she has , but I was just having a day off, and thought it would be fun and everyone said 'You should compete with her'..lolx Only got her hips and eye tested ..because that was what the minimum requirement was ....if I wanted to sell any of the pups ? ....I kept them all . Fool me eh? ..
Plant Fence Mammal Working animal Carnivore
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you all. I had already mostly written off the litter as an option due to the fact they didn’t just do the testing. But now it is fully written off.
 

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Thank you all. I had already mostly written off the litter as an option due to the fact they didn’t just do the testing. But now it is fully written off.
That's your choice ! Curiosity ..and probably for anyone faced with the same decision (s) What is your next course of action/decision on where and whom you purchase your 'Perfect pup'? .Thanks , and I'm sure a few others also . regards.
 

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I don't understand the clear by parentage thing. Testing for EIC and CNM is extremely easy and relatively cheap when it comes to the cost of a litter. Where else would a breeder cut corners if they aren't willing to test the Dam?
I know the parents of my girl are clear on both but paid and had it done just to have the paper work. for when and if i breed her...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That's your choice ! Curiosity ..and probably for anyone faced with the same decision (s) What is your next course of action/decision on where and whom you purchase your 'Perfect pup'? .Thanks , and I'm sure a few others also . regards.
It's pretty easy to find litters that have done the appropriate health testing. I will find one that has done that.

Your breeder in question is most probably and these days most definitely using 'quite rightly' the best most recent buzz words and selling technique to sell dogs and most people are buying them 'Globally' ...just like a pup from a ftch winning Dog or Dam
In this case, it was just a litter listed on Hunting Lab Pedigree. There were no buzz words or selling techniques or any type or marketing at all. Just the the pedigree and the owners name and contact info. That is fairly common place on that website. Typically people will market them another way (Facebook, etc) and then a link to the pedigree on Hunting Lab Pedigree. He may have done that but I didn't find it that way.
 

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That's your choice ! Curiosity ..and probably for anyone faced with the same decision (s) What is your next course of action/decision on where and whom you purchase your 'Perfect pup'? .Thanks , and I'm sure a few others also . regards.
99% probability the litter woud be clear on the cnm and eic issue.
but what happens if the labratory who did the testing on the bitch's parents made a mistake? Or the person sending the sample made a mistake?

information is knowledge, and in this case I do not bame birddogn for his decision because, to me at least, a breeder can make knoweldgable breeding decisions by actually knowing the genetic status on these and other diseases, not based on 'the parents were clear' - who the heck knows if the breeder got proof of her bitch's parents being clear, or if it was just word of mouth?
 

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It's pretty easy to find litters that have done the appropriate health testing. I will find one that has done that.



In this case, it was just a litter listed on Hunting Lab Pedigree. There were no buzz words or selling techniques or any type or marketing at all. Just the the pedigree and the owners name and contact info. That is fairly common place on that website. Typically people will market them another way (Facebook, etc) and then a link to the pedigree on Hunting Lab Pedigree. He may have done that but I didn't find it that way.
Best wishes in finding what you want, which is what everyone wants . Regards,
Let us know what you get and what was your deciding factors in preference that would be helpful. cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Best wishes in finding what you want, which is what everyone wants .
Thank you. It's quite easy and everyone can do it. (i am specifically just talking about the parents being tested clear for EIC and CNM). It's not a guarantee of a perfectly healthy dog for 14 years. But an easy test can rule out EIC and CNM. That was all I was asking.

Let us know what you get and what was your deciding factors in preference that would be helpful. cheers.
The pup isn't for me. But the deciding factors will be that the parents check the boxes on health clearances (the reason for my post, to clarify if a non-test checked the box or not). Secondly, I will hopefully know one of the dogs (parents) being bred and/or the person doing the breeding so I can kind of know the parents temperaments.
 

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Birddogn --- if you are really interested in that litter, you might just ask the breeder to submit a genetic test on their bitch? The puppy market is pretty crappy right now, so they may be willing to, in order to have an easier time placing their pups.

CNM is autsomal recessive --- either clear, carrier, or affected. A carrier cannot become affected, but must be bred to a clear dog if that is a plan for the future.
 

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"Clear by parentage" is a real PITA within K9Data.com. Certainly for some disorders it is valid. However, many dogs are listed that way with 5-6 generations so listed. That's just plain wrong. What is happening is that the current generation is just listed that way simply because somebody says the parent were clear so the puppy has to be. OFA says and most genetics folks agree, that CBP should only be valid for at most 2 generations and really only one. As much as is now known about genetics in dogs, there is so much not known including the possibility of an autosomal recessive popping into the dominant category. We have one in Tollers that has just been found. The issue is a gene pair that is just fine, until a totally different gene is added to the mix. The result is a condition called Inflammatory myopathy. This was just discovered.
 
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I agree fully. With several of the labs now offering a package that includes all the tests specific to the breed, not doing them is silly.
 
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99% probability the litter woud be clear on the cnm and eic issue.
but what happens if the labratory who did the testing on the bitch's parents made a mistake? Or the person sending the sample made a mistake?

information is knowledge, and in this case I do not bame birddogn for his decision because, to me at least, a breeder can make knoweldgable breeding decisions by actually knowing the genetic status on these and other diseases, not based on 'the parents were clear' - who the heck knows if the breeder got proof of her bitch's parents being clear, or if it was just word of mouth?
I just did a breeding of my Ali daughter who was sold to me as all clear for both and John Brouceks Percy out of Clooney that is marketed as all clear on both as well. BUT, before I bred Shelby, I had her tested again to confirm. I will also have a full panel done on the pups to make sure theyre all clear. And to get the color traits confirmed. Did I miss anything?
 
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