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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend of a friend has a 4 month old boykin (sp?) spaniel. Great little dog from good lines. I've seen him and would love to have one like him. The owner just got an e-collar and says that when he gives a "correction" at level 1, the dog goes bananas like it doesn't know what's going on. (which I'm sure is true) The information that I passed on is that the dog is just a puppy and they should just be having fun now. No collar! We're talking a novice here, so I know the pup can't really be "trained" at much of anything yet other than "house trained", a little bit of "sit", general socialization and some fun retrieving. I don't have the experience that many of you have, but I sincerely believe that I'm on the right track. PLEASE! some of you add your "yeas" and "nays" so I can pass them along to get him on the right track. If I'm off base, I can accept that too.
Thanks!
 

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Is the Boykin looking for a new home? He is after all the SC state Dog! Let me know if I can take him off your hands before he gets too messed up!
 

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put the collar on your friend, turn it up, and burn. See if he squirms like he doesn't know what's going on.
 

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Not to snipe the thread, but I have thought about a Boykin. Have you guys ever trained one. Are the better at upland or waterfowl?

As far as the thread goes, the guy should be educated, since he may simply be stupid. Then if that doesn't take, he should be kicked in the junk.

tt
 

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What book has he been reading? Maybe you can offer him a good one! They are awsome dogs, that's sad. He's going to screw him up. All the work he should be doing now is on lead work and make it fun!!! I'm not sure but if they have desire you don't want to take it away~ Sometimes people who don't want to listen learn the hard waya nd it's sad the animals have to suffer. Maybe you can find a seminar and have him tag along???
Just some ideas~Good luck! Sometimes you have to be a hard @$$ And come out and tell him like it is, too.
 

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You do teach a four-month old, but it is different than when they are mature. It is not "work" yet. Almost all the training is positive reinforcement. You don't make the demands. E-collars are for down the road, when you are making demands.

E-Collars are great training tools in the right hands, and can be terrible instruments of torture in the wrong. And there is very little grey -- you either now what you are doing or you don't. This is ESPECIALLY true if he is a novice. Tell him to put the collar away until he knows EXACTLY how to use it.

Your friend needs to be on a training program. There are a lot of good books out there. If he is a complete novice with no serious aspirations, I recommend James B. Spencer's Training Retrievers For Marshes And Meadows.

All it takes is about twenty-minutes a day. The only secret is making the commitment and sticking with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
spaniel

over 100 views, and only 5 responses. Thanks to those who have helped me load my gun. I was hoping for a little more backup. This is not for me, but for a cute little pup. Any more help would be appreciated, because this is going to get printed out and passed on to the owner. I did notice though that no one has supported his actions. Thanks for some more ammunition.
 

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How about this Larry, shocking a four month old pup is about like me spanking my four month old child. He wouldn't get it and it would only hurt him and not teach him anything. It's simply stupid behavior and a quick way to ruin a dog. The dog can't have learned enough behavior to have it reinforced. Its just rediculous.

You don't spank an infant, and you don't shock a four month old pup.

tt
 

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For what reason is he giving this correction is the "million dollar" question here....
 

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browndog49735 said:
no that pup should not have a ecollar on. :x

tell your friend to put that e collar on the other guys nuts a light him up. :evil:
Having an ecollar on is not at fault. But "using" it on a puppy is a whole other matter :shock: Basics can be and should be done without it's use (always dependant upon the maturity and/or age of the student)
 

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You don't teach with the E-collar. You reinforce commands already taught. The E-collar is just another training tool. Boykin Spaniels are sensitive and stubborn, and some are very unforgiving if corrections are inappropriately applied. At this pups age, positive reinforcement training methods are the best way to go. Suggest he purchase Pam Kadlac's book on training Boykins and put away the E-collar for a while.

Retriever Training for Spaniels: Working with Soft tempered hard-headed intelligent dogs

http://justduckypublishing.com/
 

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Re: spaniel

larrynogaj said:
over 100 views, and only 5 responses. Thanks to those who have helped me load my gun. I was hoping for a little more backup. This is not for me, but for a cute little pup. Any more help would be appreciated, because this is going to get printed out and passed on to the owner. I did notice though that no one has supported his actions. Thanks for some more ammunition.
I'll give back up! Not only do I think the pup shouldn't have the collar on, but the guy is doing irreperable damage at a time when he should be bonding w/ the dog & developing a positive attitude. Since the pup has no idea what he's being "corrected" (abused is more like it) for-he's losing the ability to learn.

When I was married we had field Springers. GREAT dogs & the best pheasant/chukkar dogs out there. We never trained w/ e-collars (I'm not the knocking them!). We spent time with our dogs-developed a friendship & taught them fairly & w/ respect. Granted, we "only" hunted-(& frankly-my husband more than I, but I almost always went along)-never ran a trial, but the dogs were incredible workers, steady to wing & shot & absolutely loving house dogs.

I trained Kate the same way-no collar-but certainly corrections only when I knew she was choosing her way when she knew what I wanted.

My current dog is cc (otherwise I don't have much credibility on this thread), but the philosophy is every bit the same. I like to think that I am "collar light" and that the biggest advantage of the collar is timing & a lack of emotion w/ a correction. I have the collar on all the time, but I rarely hit a button & I NEVER hit it if I'm the least bit uncertain that he knows EXACTLY why. Then we move on & end on a successful note.

I'm guessing that not only is this Boykin being unfairly "corrected", but that it's having the additional unfairness of emotional "No"s and anger. That's a kiss of death approach & a sure way to ruin a dog.

If this guy doesn't understand what you're trying to get across-it sounds like there are a lot of folks willing to provide a GOOD home for the dog.

M
 

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He should definitely lose the collar! My Boykin is CC, but I didn't put the collar on her until 12 months and didn't even nick her for another month. Probably overkill, but it worked. I have several spaniel training books, maybe I could send you one and you could pass it along. It you're interested, PM and let me know.

MRGD, Boykins should be proficient at either waterfowl or upland, but I wouldn't put them in a very cold water situation like lab or a chessie.
 

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Well, I trained one, my first retriever, with out the collar.

The first year was just obedience, and short marks. After that first year it was a very slow process.

Charlie Jurney helped with the FF, with me doing the final stages. When he was two I tried a collar. He was good for about two nicks at the 2 level before he would freeze. Then it was two months before I could get him to do anything at that "place".

I got a Lab. After the lab's formal training, I trained both dogs on the same marks and blinds. The lab on the collar the Boykin sans e-collar. By the time he was 5 years old he could hold his own with most average hunt test dogs, though his field was limited, due to his "people" :wink: not being allowed to run in certain circles.

In my opinion, only a few, make that a very few, folks have the knowledge and understanding of Boykin Spaniels, to sucessfully start using an e-collar on a 4 month old pup.
 

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Nicely put, only I would juxtapose having "the knowledge and understanding of the *e-collar*" long before applying its use to any dog, of any age. And obviously from Larry's SOS, this "trainer" doesn't have it.

I'd also be wary of the "soft dog" spiel on the Boykin's "behalf" as the true way :roll: of training them...and the aforementioned book that advocates likewise.

MG
 

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Brevard Arndt said:
" :
In my opinion, only a few, make that a very few, folks have the knowledge and understanding of Boykin Spaniels, to sucessfully start using an e-collar on a 4 month old pup.
I try to stress to all my clients who purchase Boykin pups from me to not have the expectations that this dog will train and handle pressure like a Lab. They are slower to mature, and due to the Chesapeake in their genetic makeup, it's been my experience that they handle pressure in some ways very much like a Chessie. I strongly advocate to my clients only placing a Boykin pup with a pro who has a track record of training Boykin Spaniels. I certainly agree with you in your statement above.

Frankly, I find Pam's book a good reference for the inexperienced dog owner in understanding Boykins. I have raised Boykins for almost 15 years now, and it's been a helpful starter reference I suggest to all my Boykin clients along with Retriever Puppy Training, the Right Start for Hunting, Jackie Mertens puppy tape, and of course the Lardy series for those clients who want to try retriever tests.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
boykin

Thank you all so much for your input. This in itself should get him in line. He's well intended, but operating without guidelines. This now gets printed and my neighbor will personnally deliver it to him. Extra thanks to those who have offered additional assistance. If I need to get hold of you, I will.
 
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