Actually, if the seminar I attended was any indication, Bill's pups see lots of gunner thrown marks via "wishbone" style marks never involving a request to sit or any kind of steadiness.When
Hillman is very different except for #1 above. 2. Lots of obedience-sit is huge, 3. Steady very young, 4. orange bumpers -emphasize nose, 5. no guns, gunners until obedient sit and steady which starts at a few months old.