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The original puppy program had none. Won't try to guess why not, other than you're starting with an 11 week old puppy. Bill tells a story about discussing his pups progress with someone, telling the guy his dog was doing really well but he was heeling on the wrong side. The guy asked, "how much does he weigh". Bill replied, "About 10 pounds I guess..." The guy says , "well pick him up and put him on the other side."

I've started 3 dogs following the original puppy DVD (I understand that Bill doesn't follow this process any longer). Two were 11 weeks and so you don't need more than a lead and choke collar to control the little puppies. The other was about 8 months old when I got her and she was compliant enough that you wouldn't need a prong collar regardless of your training method.

I remember one thing that is completely different than any other program I've seen that may have something to do with not using a prong collar. You never restrain or hold the puppy back when throwing a bumper or bird. Initially it's all breaking birds, then it's traffic cop, so the dog never learns to pull against the lead.
With regard to the heeling stick, you start reinforcing the sit command with the ecollar at around 12 weeks of age, so you kind of skip the heeling stick and go right to the collar.

Again, this is what I've gathered from the original puppy DVD, and I've been told by a student if the Hillmann philosophy that this may be obsolete now (but it worked wonders for me).
 

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Not specific to Hillman but I do a lot of low pressure e-collar work, similar to Bill's strategy, starting around 16 weeks of age (usually). I find that a prong/heeling stick are not usually needed. When I say a lot I'm talking a 2-4 dogs a month being collar conditioned for the past 12 months.
 

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I've started 3 dogs following the original puppy DVD (I understand that Bill doesn't follow this process any longer). Two were 11 weeks and so you don't need more than a lead and choke collar to control the little puppies. The other was about 8 months old when I got her and she was compliant enough that you wouldn't need a prong collar regardless of your training method.

Again, this is what I've gathered from the original puppy DVD, and I've been told by a student if the Hillmann philosophy that this may be obsolete now (but it worked wonders for me).
Can you elaborate on what changes Bill has made to his program and what methods have changed since the original DVD?
 

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I did Hillman's program w/ a prong collar & like a prong better than choke. JMO Really liked all the work he did in the video around "sit" !
 

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Just to help clarify, I asked the source about difference in original and revised. This is what Mary wrote me.

The "revised edition" is a five hr video with LOTS and LOTS more information in it
than the first one … as one of the major reasons we revised the first one is because
we knew people wanted to see further what Bill does with a developing puppy.
 

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Can you elaborate on what changes Bill has made to his program and what methods have changed since the original DVD?
I don't think "obsolete" is accurate in the difference between the Original and Revised editions. Two notable differences are the force fetch method has changed (as shown in the Fetch DVD), and he starts teaching "Here" earlier, but in a different context than the Original DVD. It's taught while the pup is NOT sitting, but just casually walking on lead.

The part that may be considered "obsolete" is the presentation of the material. The Original had voice over narration by Bill, where the Revised edition, has "real time" audio as the training is underway. The (3) main principles are still the same. (1) Wild to Chase (2) Sit (3) Walk on a Lead. You get to see more pups in training, and perhaps a little more "conflict" and attempt to "balance" with pups of different temperaments than Nick in the Original. There is also a significant section about early marking, which is really good. Also some info on feeding and general care. It's a worthwhile upgrade for sure, but the overall philosophy/goals are consistent with the Original, just considerably expanded in the Revised.

Hope that helps!
 

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Can you elaborate on what changes Bill has made to his program and what methods have changed since the original DVD?
No I can not. I haven't seen the new stuff, just been told by PM that he didn't do the things I described from the original puppy dvd. So, I decided to throw that disclaimer out there.

I like and use the stuff from the original, not going to change to the new.
 

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Thank you KC and MD. That certainly makes more sense. Glen, it appears that none of the concepts or methods have been abandoned, just expanded. I suggest restraint in making claims otherwise on the strength of an anonymous PM.
 

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Thank you KC and MD. That certainly makes more sense. Glen, it appears that none of the concepts or methods have been abandoned, just expanded. I suggest restraint in making claims otherwise on the strength of an anonymous PM.
It's anonymous to you. I know the person and they are well versed in the Hillmann philosophy. I'd say an expert and 100% Hillmannite. If I put the disclaimer out there, people can investigate it on their own, as you have done. If I don't put it out there, I may be making statements that are no longer consistent with Bill's method.

You can keep your suggestion. I'll keep putting it out there so people know that I'm speaking if the original puppy DVD and have been told he doesn't start puppies in the same manner as I now do.
 

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Why don't we let the Hillmans tell us what they "really" meant if they will.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just ordered the new revised edition. Are you saying this one is not as good as the original!?
So back to my original post. The Hillman program does not use a heeling stick and/or prong collar because it is typically not needed under the "Hillman program"? Thanks.
 

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Just ordered the new revised edition.

Relax coachjhall11, you'll be very satisfied with the revised edition. Nothing I've read in this thread has caused me to second guess my choice of using Hillmann's "revised" edition. In fact, as soon as the ice and snow clears out, Pounce is ready to begin Hillmann's Land Fundamentals.

As for the OP's question about the "use/or not" of using a heeling stick and/or prong collar, the words "not typically" provide an accurate qualification.
 

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The “Training a Retriever Puppy” video Revised Edition is an expansion of the first DVD with additional clarification and information.
If you scroll back and read the comments put forth by MountainDuck you will have the correct info.
Bill does not use a heeling stick or a prong collar especially on little puppies. These Hillmann DVDs are lessons in mastering the use of the electric collar not whips, chains, sticks etc.

Mary Hillmann
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The “Training a Retriever Puppy” video Revised Edition is an expansion of the first DVD with additional clarification and information.
If you scroll back and read the comments put forth by MountainDuck you will have the correct info.
Bill does not use a heeling stick or a prong collar especially on little puppies. These Hillmann DVDs are lessons in mastering the use of the electric collar not whips, chains, sticks etc.

Mary Hillmann
Thank you!
 
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