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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 8 Month YLM is stubborn and I need some ideas or maybe just a little motivation.

I've been working on hold for about 3 weeks. His basic OB is solid. I would say I'm probably at around 15-20 sessions minimum. His hold is getting slightly better but he's still fighting me a lot. He is trying everything to get out of doing the training. He trys to roll, turn, lay down. When I get the bumper in his mouth he'll yawn and try to push it out.

My standards have been high, I have his collar in my hand so when he rolls I hold him right back up to sit and keep the paint roller in his mouth. He does good with the leather glove in his mouth.

I've done a lot of searching and I decided to start with some pressure today. Instead of just forcing hold...some people say hold is unneccesary because fetch is the same as saying hold. I am following DD basics.

He picked up real quick how to turn off pressure and was reaching for the paint roller within 3-4 ear pinches. BUT, he still struggled with holding once he had it in his mouth I still had to force him to hold it until I told him leave. I decided that was enough for today and wanted to get some advice.

I don't know whether to call him soft or hard...he's intense on everything else and handles pressure well but he is really really stubborn on hold.

My biggest issue is the rolling around and avoidance. It is getting very frustrating and maybe I just need a little motivation from you guys and vent a little bit.
 

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I like my hold to be solid before I move on to pressure. (just me) Finger, wooden dowel, dumb bell, bumper (small), bumper (big), small dokken, and eventually a goose dokken. Be patient the dog can sense you frustration. This make the dog feel he is winning.
 

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I have never felt that hold has to be 100 % reliable to move on to fetch. Three weeks is a very long time to just work on hold. I would guess your dog is getting bored and/or has figured out avoidance can work. Try getting the dog moving with the bumper in his mouth commanding hold. I would also be a little more forceful when he drops the bumper.......a little stronger tap on his muzzle.....I would not correct this dog any time he had the bumper in his mouth (Even if he rolling it) If he has the bumper in his mouth, it's praise...but don't overdo it....just a good dog and pat his head......but try getting him walking. I know you are trying to be very thorough (which is great) but 3 weeks on hold is a bit of an overkill.
 

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This should actually correct pretty easy...Keep your fingers on the ear the entire time(You should be anyway).As soon as he drops the bumper, re-apply pressure. Very soon the he will understand the pressure means GET THE BUMPER AND HOLD IT. Then he will relieze it only comes out when commanded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I believe I am going to continue with ear pinch pressure after reading....and seeing some results this morning. 3 weeks has felt like a very long time with hold but he keeps up with the avoidance. I've never allowed the avoidance and I always make force him to finish.

When he's distracted it appears hold works better so I'm going to try and get him moving. I just don't want to rush things and overcomplicate it if he doesn't understand. I have a go pro I'll take a video and show you what I'm going through.

He's real wierd. He'll jump up and grab the paint roller and play with it but as soon as I have it in my hand and start getting down to business he wants nothing to do with it.
 

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One thing that might help as well is to eliminate his ability to lay down etc. I have a one inch water pipe frame mounted on a training table that allows me to use as much retraint as needed. Taking away his ability to "avoid" usually helps a bunch.
 

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Get somebody who has experience with FF problems to help you. Something tells me that you are about to make a mistake due to frustration.

Just curious---What kind of personality does your dog have? How is his general obedience? What is his general body language telling you as you begin your session?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My dog has an extremely high strung attitude....A-type personality. After today's session I'm just going to go back to OB for a while I think. I look at all these videos and the dogs are so submissive I wish my dog was like that. I'm not sure if it's a problem with OB or just his stubborness. His body language is excited. He can't wait to get started but as soon as we get started he starts bucking and won't sit still. It's terribly frustrating.

This afternoon went pretty good but he still will not calm down. It's like he's excited and ancy and avoiding the task. Hard to explain but as soon as we get back to OB he straightens up.

I'm pretty well stumped and need some help. I just wish the training wasn't so darn expensive.
 

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My 8 Month YLM is stubborn and I need some ideas or maybe just a little motivation.

I've been working on hold for about 3 weeks. His basic OB is solid. I would say I'm probably at around 15-20 sessions minimum. His hold is getting slightly better but he's still fighting me a lot. He is trying everything to get out of doing the training. He trys to roll, turn, lay down. When I get the bumper in his mouth he'll yawn and try to push it out.

My standards have been high, I have his collar in my hand so when he rolls I hold him right back up to sit and keep the paint roller in his mouth. He does good with the leather glove in his mouth.

I've done a lot of searching and I decided to start with some pressure today. Instead of just forcing hold...some people say hold is unneccesary because fetch is the same as saying hold. I am following DD basics.

He picked up real quick how to turn off pressure and was reaching for the paint roller within 3-4 ear pinches. BUT, he still struggled with holding once he had it in his mouth I still had to force him to hold it until I told him leave. I decided that was enough for today and wanted to get some advice.

I don't know whether to call him soft or hard...he's intense on everything else and handles pressure well but he is really really stubborn on hold.

My biggest issue is the rolling around and avoidance. It is getting very frustrating and maybe I just need a little motivation from you guys and vent a little bit.



Not a race, won't happen over night. be fair, consistent, and remember timing and praise. I have a very mouthy dog --went through all of the above.
 
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