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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for advice. I'd been helping a friend with a dog working on hold. The dog doesn't want to hold the roller firmly. He will keep it in his mouth softly and pushes it out with his tongue after a bit. The tapping under the chin ain't working. I'd tried holding his chin up but if I release it he will open up and hold softly. It has been 2 weeks and no progress.
Suggestions please.
 

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Force Fetch
 

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Is there any animation and/or fun in the mix? Holding can be kind of boring unless the trainer
is exciting and upbeat. I am 80 years old. Bill Hillmann told me that he was concerned about
my being agile enough to produce the fun and excitement required to properly engage a puppy.

After watching, he reassured me that his concerns were not validated. However, there was a
time early on where it seemed I needed to be a bit quicker. :love:



Second childhood regards, Jim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXPXL3mxF-Y
 

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Define 2 weeks; every day, every other day? I've force fetched hundreds and what you're seeing is not uncommon. Instead of holding his chin up, try tapping it; not hard, not a slap, just a gentle tap. Speak calmly. Try scratching his head/neck with your collar-holding hand while calmly repeating "hold" and praising him. Once he seems a little better, take your roller/bumper-holding hand and scratch his muzzle while calmly repeating "hold" and praising him. Once he seems to be holding a little better, tap the ends of the roller/bumper. If it slides a little or his grip is loose, gently tap his jaw, saying hold. At all times, be prepared to keep him from dropping the roller/bumper. If he starts to spit it, force it back in and repeat "hold".
 

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I am a novice, but a fairly well studied one, and struggled with hold on my current young dog. It took us two weeks and I had days that I just never thought he would get it. I found to have better success when I started adding in a tap on the nose in place of a chin tap. I alternated between both. However, that didn't totally get us there. One night I was sitting on the couch and grabbed a glove that happened to be out on the counter. I tried the "glove method' for a few repetitions while just hanging out in the living room. He handled it fine and it was really no big deal. The next day his hold was much better and the day after that, and ever since, it has been excellent.

I can't say for certain that the glove was the magic trick on this dog. Or if it was just a coincidence? But I think it had to have some type of impact or maybe just helped him have a light bulb moment.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the input. I'll keep you all post it
 

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After years of problems with rolling bumpers, freezing and sticking, I finally started teaching my dogs what 'hold' actually meant using the Dobbs 'gloved hand' method......

See this description: Dobbs Training Libraries: Trained Retrieve Part I

I modified it a little but you can get an idea from a couple of videos I made years ago.

See:
and

Be PATIENT and TEACH the HOLD command.....you will be so glad you did :)
 

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Jim,

I forgot to mention that Hillmann's theory is also excellent. I just like to add the gloved hand at the beginning due to my experiences with 'mouthy' dogs which never seem to be solved completely with my 'force fetch.' I like to refer to the process as the 'conditioned retrieve'.

As you know (and Hillmann preaches consistently to make it exciting)...... both teacher and student get 'bored' during the 'fetch' process and especially 'hold'. I definitely recommend short sessions mixed with lots of fun/happy retrieves for a job well done.

Other than adding the 'hold' sessions, I pretty much follow Hillmann steps afterwards as they are more in tune with 'teaching' than old school.
 
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