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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 6 month old is going through hold and will begin force fetch on monday. She is solid on her OB retrieves to hand and HOLD is coming along nicely.....BUT

About a month ago she begin to get sloppy with the way she held the bumber on retrieves (holding by end, cigaring the bumper etc.) I attributed it to teeth coming in and I still believe it has something to do with it.

Today in our hold and beginning Fetch session she did fine held it and even reach to fetch the bumper BUT she wants to reach for the ends and not the middle. If i cover the ends with my hands she fetches fine but immediately starts mouthing it to work to the end.

QUESTIONS
Is this a normal problem that I must work through

How do you encourage holding in the middle

How do you get the concept across that the middle is the correct way ...I always move the bumper to the middle but it just seems that she may not be understanding that the end is bad and middle is good.
 

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This is one that looks bad now, but it is not worth your time to mess with. I've seen several do this as young dogs and every one of them stopped in time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I hope your right. I just have had bad luck as my two year Chessie still does it make me so mad and when I correct her she just looks at me as if to say

"what you got the bumper back did you not"

Hold ducks correctly just looks like an idiot sometimes with bumpers
 

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Putting pieces of plastic pipe on the ends of the bumpers is the easy way to deal with this,gets them in the habit of carrying in the middle,they don't like holding the plastic ends.I use 1 1/2 " ABS connectors on the small bumpers,have to force them on fairly tight,but it works.
 

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I hope your right. I just have had bad luck as my two year Chessie still does it make me so mad and when I correct her she just looks at me as if to say

"what you got the bumper back did you not"

Hold ducks correctly just looks like an idiot sometimes with bumpers
How many bumpers have you seen in a HT, FT, or while hunting?
 

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This is one that looks bad now, but it is not worth your time to mess with. I've seen several do this as young dogs and every one of them stopped in time.

Wrong answer........




Following info quoted from an old post by Mr. Randy

"Remember when the young puppy use to bring the bumper or paint roller back? Ever notice how they held it??? Usually right in the middle correct? When does the cigar hold start?? When the dog figures out he can do it and get away with it. Most people don't fix it because it's cute, the problem is somewhere down the line it's not so cute anymore. WHY?

1) Bad holds or lazy holds lead to mouthy chompy deliveries. Do we fix them or do we reach down slap them under the jaw and say "HOLD" I'd say most people cuff under the jaw and the dog stops chomping, but guess what they'll do it again. Sound close?? It's not fixed just a band-aid.

2) Next thing that usually occurs you move into doubles. Problem is the dog is still chomping on the bumper, your trying to correct a hold yet in turn takes away from the dogs memory. Ever see this?? Dog runs out looks stupid because it can't remember a double, but back on line the dog just got cuffed and yelled at.

3) Everyone’s favorite: Rolling birds in it's mouth, now your really pissed because your progressing towards competing and the dog has chompy deliveries. Judges don't like to see that to much, do they??

4) Freezing on birds would be my next guess, WHY? Chompy, alligator deliveries. When a dog grabs or alligators a delivery people yell "GIVE" get mad because of the delivery and give the bird back to the dog and try it again. The dog just got rewarded for a bad delivery and figures out every time he chomps a bird he'll get it back.

5) Where does it start and stop??? THE YARD




Getting rid of the cigar hold in THE YARD:

1) It all starts in the yard, hand throw a bumper, when the dog returns to a heel grab the check cord and slap the bumper out of the dogs mouth if he is holding it like a cigar or mouthing it. Ear pinch the dog to the bumper and command fetch. Now you have a choice (A) walk the dog in the yard and watch when they start having a lose hold on the bumper hit the bumper with your knee, again ear pinch to the bumper. (B) hand throw another bumper to get another correction for a sloppy hold. Don't let him dive for the fallen bumper until you have his ear. (AND THEY SHOULD BE DIVING)

2) Once the dog knows the drill and the dog has been thru electric fetch no fetch, replace the ear pinch with a continuous burn until he has the bumper in his mouth. You should notice a real big change in how he now holds the bumpers.

3) When YOU feel the dog is ready transfer the corrections over to a field atmosphere. Once the dog knows the drill in the field you can yell fetch and they usually stop and readjust the hold if not correct.

4) Remember to try and train the dog to the best of your ability and correct minor problems because usually they lead to the bigger ones. Some people don't care we do..... Randy"

Hope that helps you up in Alaska
 

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Wrong answer........




Following info quoted from an old post by Mr. Randy

"Remember when the young puppy use to bring the bumper or paint roller back? Ever notice how they held it??? Usually right in the middle correct? When does the cigar hold start?? When the dog figures out he can do it and get away with it. Most people don't fix it because it's cute, the problem is somewhere down the line it's not so cute anymore. WHY?

1) Bad holds or lazy holds lead to mouthy chompy deliveries. Do we fix them or do we reach down slap them under the jaw and say "HOLD" I'd say most people cuff under the jaw and the dog stops chomping, but guess what they'll do it again. Sound close?? It's not fixed just a band-aid.

2) Next thing that usually occurs you move into doubles. Problem is the dog is still chomping on the bumper, your trying to correct a hold yet in turn takes away from the dogs memory. Ever see this?? Dog runs out looks stupid because it can't remember a double, but back on line the dog just got cuffed and yelled at.

3) Everyone’s favorite: Rolling birds in it's mouth, now your really pissed because your progressing towards competing and the dog has chompy deliveries. Judges don't like to see that to much, do they??

4) Freezing on birds would be my next guess, WHY? Chompy, alligator deliveries. When a dog grabs or alligators a delivery people yell "GIVE" get mad because of the delivery and give the bird back to the dog and try it again. The dog just got rewarded for a bad delivery and figures out every time he chomps a bird he'll get it back.

5) Where does it start and stop??? THE YARD




Getting rid of the cigar hold in THE YARD:

1) It all starts in the yard, hand throw a bumper, when the dog returns to a heel grab the check cord and slap the bumper out of the dogs mouth if he is holding it like a cigar or mouthing it. Ear pinch the dog to the bumper and command fetch. Now you have a choice (A) walk the dog in the yard and watch when they start having a lose hold on the bumper hit the bumper with your knee, again ear pinch to the bumper. (B) hand throw another bumper to get another correction for a sloppy hold. Don't let him dive for the fallen bumper until you have his ear. (AND THEY SHOULD BE DIVING)

2) Once the dog knows the drill and the dog has been thru electric fetch no fetch, replace the ear pinch with a continuous burn until he has the bumper in his mouth. You should notice a real big change in how he now holds the bumpers.

3) When YOU feel the dog is ready transfer the corrections over to a field atmosphere. Once the dog knows the drill in the field you can yell fetch and they usually stop and readjust the hold if not correct.

4) Remember to try and train the dog to the best of your ability and correct minor problems because usually they lead to the bigger ones. Some people don't care we do..... Randy"

Hope that helps you up in Alaska
Appreciate that, but I hard see it as a wrong answer. Maybe a different opinion than yours...spend all the time you want trying to get the dog not to hold a plastic bumper by the end.
 

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Appreciate that, but I hard see it as a wrong answer. Maybe a different opinion than yours...spend all the time you want trying to get the dog not to hold a plastic bumper by the end.
You obviously missed the point. Working on hold with plastic bumpers helps prevent a dog from chomping and freezing on birds among other things. It's not about carrying plastic.
 
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Pick your battles!
I have a 2 1/2 year old that still cigars bumpers and grabs em by the strings.
His bird manners are perfect!
 

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Pick your battles!
I have a 2 1/2 year old that still cigars bumpers and grabs em by the strings.
His bird manners are perfect!
It's not a battle, it's simply BASICS.
 

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Breck I appreciate the post. I will admit to you I am a cupper and your right it is a band-aid. Thank you for the bit of advice seems simple enough and might just save me 60$ for a pass I will give it a try.
 

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Watch the Lardy video 2nd edition. There are several dogs throughout the video who cigar bumpers. Lardy didn't correct any of them for it. I don't either. Haven't had a freezer yet. I believe there are different reasons for sticking/freezing then cigaring bumpers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks all. My 2 year old is no FC dog but gets the job done BUT I would like for it to be done correctly. The pup knows what right is she is just being stubborn.... she is entering that stage of life. thanks for the tips Breck she is not collar conditioned yet but I will keep it in mind.
 

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I'm with Howard on this.
 

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When teaching hold if I have a loose mouthed or poor holder I tap the bumper around in the dogs mouth until its holding centered ( command hold while doing it) I find the dogs get annoyed by this and correct themselves
 

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I don't think it's worth it to spend much time correcting a dog's hold on bumpers, as far as whether he holds it in the center. This seems especially true if he is good with birds, which is the whole point, right?
 

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Pick your battles!
I have a 2 1/2 year old that still cigars bumpers and grabs em by the strings.
His bird manners are perfect!
Excellent advice IMHO.
 

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Watch the Lardy video 2nd edition. There are several dogs throughout the video who cigar bumpers. Lardy didn't correct any of them for it. I don't either. Haven't had a freezer yet. I believe there are different reasons for sticking/freezing then cigaring bumpers.
Yes Mr. Howard, I saw that too. Lardy even made comment to it in one of his sessions. He pretty much stated as long as the dog wasn't mouthy with the bumpers or birds, that it wasn't worth the time spent to correct it.
 
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