[Miriam Wade]

When teaching the dog to honor (& yes-I know it's a "sit means sit" violation-just like any other breaking issue) do you try & get an honor in every time you train in a group or do you feel you can "overdo" it? If the dog really seems to understand the "No bird" cue after a few very clear corrections-do you still honor every chance you get?

M

 

[FOM]

It depends. Has the dog had issues trying to learn the concept? Is the dog naturally steady and only took a few lessons to learn?

If I had a young dog just learning, then I'd practice as much as I can especially in a group!

If I had a older dog that was steady as a rock, then it would depend on the training group, but I'd try to get in an honor in here and there when I could.

If I had a cronic breaker - every chance I could get.

If I had a young dog that showed they understood the honor then I'd try maybe every other training group until they were an old hand at honoring....

Nothing worse than to go out on the honor, especially when it is the very last thing you had to do in the test/trial.

FOM

 

[Steve Shaver]

HiM,
I HATE HONORS. My dogs honor perfectly when training by myself or in a small group but when it comes to the real thing it's on the edge everytime. Petes worse than Kitty and HT are worse than FT.
I'd say do it as much as you can, especially if your training with a good size group or anything close to the real HT or FT atmosphere.

 

[Mitch Patterson]

I honor often with younger dogs (on-lead at first), but not much with the older, All-Age guys.

Honoring seems to help my youger guys understand the "steady" thing. I'll honor for a couple of dogs if possible and honor BEFORE they run if possible when they're young. I'll also have them honor for the send for two birds (sometimes) instead of walking off soon after the running dog is sent.

 

[Norm 66]

When I train during the week I don't honor very often because it's usually on two of us. In our training group sessions we try and get at least a couple of honor situations every weekend. Thankfully we've been clean on honoring for a couple of years. I have to think it comes from the reps we get in group.

 

[[email protected]@##?]

I would practice until you are REALLY sure. My Chessie was running a nice SH last Summer when he went out on the honor. I had never practiced honoring on water marks so close to the working dog while sitting on a stool and the dog was seated behind some weeds and the working dog splashed just a few yards in front of you to get the first mark. He was fine as the marks went down, just creeped a little to see around the weeds (1/2 step) but as soon as the working dog hit the water in front of him, we were done. All we would have had left to pass was a relatively easy water blind. I think the combo of the weeds, me sitting and the distance and splash did him in and we had never done an honor even close to that. Moral of the story, expect the unexpected and I am not sure you can have a dog that is too obedient or too steady.

 

[Miriam Wade]

Thanks everyone!! He seems to get it (No-I'm not saying that we don't need to train on it!) & isn't resentful of the correction, but I want to find a good balance since it's one of the things where you can't be a Pollyanna when you correct. The fact that there is an added cue-makes it helpful too. I know lots of dogs where you can see their entire demeanor change (not in a negative way) when on honor because they simply know it's "not their turn" (That's what I told Kate on honors-"It's not your turn!" :wink: )

All good suggestions!!!!

Appreciate it!

M

 

[Granddaddy]

Since we are talking about honoring & Miriam seems pleased with the responses, what are your views about using a down during honoring. I've seen it used, but it it widely acceptable by HT & FT judges? And does a down meet the intent & letter of the rules for honoring?

 

[duckdawg27]

Chapter 3 Section 6 (AKC)
"While a dog must honor in the area designated by the Judges, the specific position of the honoring dog will be determined by the handler provided the honoring dog is positioned to clearly see all the marks without repositioning."

I routinely "down" my dogs and have not had any problems in AKC/UKC HT but, there is always tommorrow. Keep in mind you can't touch or intimidate 'em to get 'em there but as long as they will "down" on command why not use it. At face value it looks as if its OK by the regs.

 

[Granddaddy]

The objection I got from one judge was that the dog couldn't possible see the marks to the ground in a down position....... :?:

 

[Evan]

When teaching the dog to honor (& yes-I know it's a "sit means sit" violation-just like any other breaking issue) do you try & get an honor in every time you train in a group or do you feel you can "overdo" it? If the dog really seems to understand the "No bird" cue after a few very clear corrections-do you still honor every chance you get?

M

If there is enough help in the field, and there are enough dog/handler teams to run, I honor every time with every dog. It's so fundamental. Many a trainer gets comfortable with ol' Shep being so steady and so experienced, and then one day they've just been the only team to nail the marks...until the honor. It doesn't take that much effort, and it has only upsides.

Evan

 

[Steve Hester]

There's only two kinds of dogs; those that did break, and those that will break. Evan is right, as usual. Practice it frequently.

 

[Mark Littlejohn]

When teaching the dog to honor (& yes-I know it's a "sit means sit" violation-just like any other breaking issue) do you try & get an honor in every time you train in a group or do you feel you can "overdo" it? If the dog really seems to understand the "No bird" cue after a few very clear corrections-do you still honor every chance you get?

M

If there is enough help in the field, and there are enough dog/handler teams to run, I honor every time with every dog. It's so fundamental. Many a trainer gets comfortable with ol' Shep being so steady and so experienced, and then one day they've just been the only team to nail the marks...until the honor. It doesn't take that much effort, and it has only upsides.

Evan

My 2 dogs honor on nearly every mark that's not theirs. (I found what you call what we do; "Walking Singles"). I often run both dogs together out of necessity. I sit both, walk away, throw a bumper, call a dog. The other one honors. They alternate as to which goes first and which one honors.

It has never occured to me that too much honoring could ever be a bad thing.... :roll:

Mark

 

[Kevin Hannah]

The objection I got from one judge was that the dog couldn't possible see the marks to the ground in a down position....... :?:

Let the marks hit the ground and then give the down command, dogsaw all the birds and is now laying down.

Kevin

 

[Kevin Hannah]

Oh ya and I have one that has lots of trouble with honors so when we train in a big enough group I go to the line and cold honor the dog ahead of me, move to the working dog position and then back to the honor on the way out. If either honor situation doesn't go well then we sit for another dog.

Kevin

 

[Jerry]

It is simply a "No, No Bird", as you step in front of the dog to prevent any forward movement.

Doesn't take long for them to understand what you are asking. You can do this 100 yards away from the line.

Jerry

 

[Angie B]

I honor every dog just as often as I can. Just like using a holding blind before coming to the line. It's just the way things are done, on and around the line.

Angie

 

[wenglish]

I have been in that situation before, what I got into the habit of doing while in training is possition the pooch, give the sit command, no bird him and I stand sideways facing my dog......... Dog sees all marks go down so no obstruction their........ And so far so good.. I look at it this way every time we send our dogs on marks were always facing the AOF, this way its just another clue to the pooch that im not facing the fall there fore its not your bird......... JMO....
For the pro's if im wrong please correct me.

 

[TxFig]

Since we are talking about honoring & Miriam seems pleased with the responses, what are your views about using a down during honoring. I've seen it used, but it it widely acceptable by HT & FT judges? And does a down meet the intent & letter of the rules for honoring?

Personally, I don't like it... especially for a dog that has a propensity to break on occasion. The reason is because if there is any chance the dog can't see the mark clearly (or simply likes to creep), the act of sitting up puts the dog into motion.

Newton's First Law of Motion tells us "object in motion tends to stay in motion".

Therefore, imho, a dog which is laying down and then sits up (for whatever reason) is more likely to break than if it had been sitting to begin with.

 

[stevelow]

Miriam, with Cody it was never an issue; when he was younger he really wanted to break when he was the working dog, but as soon as he retrieved the birds he seemed to know that his job was done, and he would yawn and even lie down while honoring. With Pilot, at 18 months, I make him honor each time he runs in training. He is starting to get it.