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I've got a client dog that has been "diagnosed" with dysplasia at 7 months. Never heard of it this early. Not saying its not so, I'm just looking for some input.
 

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Penn Hip at 18 weeks will give the answer
I don't know if PennHIP is definitive, but I use it as a gauge before sending dogs off for training - had a 6 month old fall into the range of possibility of having HD. He is in a pet home and will have OFAs done at 24-26 months.
 

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Penn Hip is a science, its factual. Get a Penn Hip rating on an 18 week old puppy. Then when the same dog is 10 get another, if the dog wasnt in an accident or any trame during the duration the rating will be the same. OFA is a guess or an opinion its not scientific
 

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Penn Hip is a science, its factual. Get a Penn Hip rating on an 18 week old puppy. Then when the same dog is 10 get another, if the dog wasnt in an accident or any trame during the duration the rating will be the same. OFA is a guess or an opinion its not scientific
It is scientific, but when you have a "growing" puppy at six months it can't be "perfect" - it's only scientific at the time the x-rays are taken. I'll post pictures of the x-rays when he's two - it will prove to be interesting. I think PennHIP is a good gauge but I don't kid myself that such an early evaluation is accurate.
 

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Until penn hip uses a calibrated machine to do the positioning, it's really as subjective as ofa. Different size/strength people apply different amounts of pressure which can give different laxity.

But to answer the original question, yes you can see (hip?) dysplasia at that age if it's bad enough. But I would make sure a radiologist or ortho specialist is taking/reading the films.
 

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We had a lab that started showing lameness when he was 6-7 months old. We had him x-rayed, not OFA at 8 months and the deformity was oblivious. The vet I was using at that time said it was quite possible that he sustained an injury when he was just 2-3 weeks old.
 

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OFA is a guess or an opinion its not scientific
I couldn't agree more with that, I am not a fan of OFA, too subjective and their database is flawed because unless the owner checks the box to post the results regardless nobody ever really knows if particular dogs are linked to passing on hip or elbow dysplasia.
 

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The OFA database isn't flawed...the people who choose not to post keep it from being as useful as it could be.

As far as I know there isn't a Penn Hip database at all, is there? And there isn't a PRA database, or an EIC database either. And the CNM database only lists the ones that are clear. So either owners provide the documentation or they don't.

Everything we use is just a tool--how we use the information is the difference.

Meredith
 

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To answer the OP's question, if it's bad it can show up symptomatically as early as 6 months old.
 

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Completely agree with hotel4dogs....if they are dysplastic enough for the symptoms to appear they can be diagnosed as soon as they appear (at what ever age that is). I think around 6 months is as early as I have seen one.
 

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I had a GSD pup that was diagnosed at 4 months. He was a mess....bad elbows too.
 

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Penn Hip is a science, its factual. Get a Penn Hip rating on an 18 week old puppy. Then when the same dog is 10 get another, if the dog wasnt in an accident or any trame during the duration the rating will be the same. OFA is a guess or an opinion its not scientific
Even Penn Hip has backed off of that 16 week accuracy.

4. The PennHIP method can be reliably performed on a dog as young as 16 weeks old.


"PennHIP has studied the efficacy of this method from eight weeks up to three years of age. For the present, it is recommended that dogs should not be evaluated before 16 weeks of age and that follow-up radiography at 6 months or 1 year of age is encouraged. However, the decision to have the method performed again is always that of the owner. "

Yes, really bad hips can show up at 6 or 7 months. Some aren't in the sockets.
 

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The OFA database isn't flawed...the people who choose not to post keep it from being as useful as it could be.

As far as I know there isn't a Penn Hip database at all, is there? And there isn't a PRA database, or an EIC database either. And the CNM database only lists the ones that are clear. So either owners provide the documentation or they don't.

Everything we use is just a tool--how we use the information is the difference.

Meredith
You have your opinion and I have mine, the fact that there is the ablity not to disclose results removes any possibility of an accurate representation of the submitted dogs and the other dogs in their pedigrees. Penn-hip provides an accurate and repeatable deflection number for a given dog, OFA being randomly subjective dependant upon which three vets recieve the radiographs provides neither a repeatable measurement for the given dog nor any creditable information within their collection of data. Many a good dog have been left by the wayside by poor quality radiographs and random selection upon who reads and evaluates them. Sorry don't like it and have little faith in it. A dysplastic dog is just that and is evident but the wide gray area of a seemingly moving target that seems to exist between good and fair is to me unsatisfactory.
 

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Many a good dog have been left by the wayside by poor quality radiographs and random selection upon who reads and evaluates them. Sorry don't like it and have little faith in it.
There were dogs that were dumped because of Penn-Hip results also in the beginning not corrolating with clinical results as the dogs aged. Many breeders still don't believe in it because of that and that's why there are so few on board. OFA still works, and some breeders use both as tools.
 

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Until penn hip uses a calibrated machine to do the positioning, it's really as subjective as ofa. Different size/strength people apply different amounts of pressure which can give different laxity.

Although people may be able to apply different strengths, PennHip does confirm there has been adequate compression on the distraction view by changes in the foam on the distractor (positioning device). You just cannot over distract - if a joint is lax, it is lax. You are not going to make a tight hip look lax - and I have tried.

"As far as I know there isn't a Penn Hip database at all, is there? And there isn't a PRA database, or an EIC database either. And the CNM database only lists the ones that are clear. So either owners provide the documentation or they don't."

PennHip does have a very comprehensive database, it is just not open to the public at this point. All dogs that get PennHip films are entered into the database to generate the laxity indexes for the breed. As a PennHip certified veterinarian you sign a contract that every PennHip study you perform will get submitted. So they get the good, bad, and ugly. That way they can generate accurate indexes. They are currently working on an open database, so one should be available in the future.

Also you can now submit your PennHip, EIC, and CNM scores to OFA and they will list them on their database. Of course just like all OFA information, it is up to the owner to have it enetered and there is no requirement for them to do so.

OFA has a great database, but their information is severely limited by the subjective nature of radiographic interpretation and the fact that all information is elective.
 

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We've been in retrievers over 40 years. Never used Penn Hip and have no opinion so far. I do know folks who have Penn Hip done early and OFA at 2 and say the end result is the same. We have always had a hip x-ray done by a very capable vet skilled in x-ray technique somewhere around 6, 7 or 8 mos. before we've sent the pups for training. You can find hip dysplasia early if you use a very knowledgeable vet. The opinions have always been "spot on" and correlated with the 2 year x-rays.
 

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Had a boxer diagnosed with HD at 5 months old.

Took him to the vet because he was lame on a front paw. Got meds, it went away.
A few weeks later we took him back to the vet, this time it was the other front leg.

He also 'rolled' his front paws over a lot while playing, especially when he was getting tired.

He actually got a lot better with age as far as lameness goes, once he stopped growing he seemed much better. He is just a pet and was to be neutered regardless, so other than x-rays to show he clearly had HD I took it no further.
 

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OFA has a great database, but their information is severely limited by the subjective nature of radiographic interpretation and the fact that all information is elective.

My point exactly.
DMc
 
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