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"Handlers entering 6 dogs must furnish one individual to serve as a bird tech.
Handlers entering 10 or more dogs must furnish two individuals to serve as bird techs."

I saw this on a HRC hunt test premium.

Handler shows up with 8 dogs. No bird tech or hunt test helper.

Onus now on the committee to enforce the statement on the premium.

Is this within the rules and how does the committee go about following up?

Would it fly at an AKC event?
 

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page 5 of the rules

"HRC, Inc. and/or affiliated HRC club officers have theright to refuse the entry of any dog or handler. However, nohandler shall be refused entry based upon religion, race,color, national origin, age or sex. "

Not sure if that means entry, as in at the time of entering the test, or entry, as in even if you successfully enter we can still deny you the ability to run your dogs.

I suppose if clubs want to require this of people attending their events, then after the entry dates closed committee officers should call the people with 'x' number of dogs and courteously ask/remind the entrant to bring help as stated in the premium - and if they can't the club will scratch whatever number of dogs needed to get below the 'magic' number.....

Seems like a royal pain in the butt to me. Easier to catch flies with honey.
 

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page 5 of the rules

"HRC, Inc. and/or affiliated HRC club officers have theright to refuse the entry of any dog or handler. However, nohandler shall be refused entry based upon religion, race,color, national origin, age or sex. "

Not sure if that means entry, as in at the time of entering the test, or entry, as in even if you successfully enter we can still deny you the ability to run your dogs.

I suppose if clubs want to require this of people attending their events, then after the entry dates closed committee officers should call the people with 'x' number of dogs and courteously ask/remind the entrant to bring help as stated in the premium - and if they can't the club will scratch whatever number of dogs needed to get below the 'magic' number.....

Seems like a royal pain in the butt to me. Easier to catch flies with honey.
The world is full of things that others said "Could not happen".
 
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page 5 of the rules

"HRC, Inc. and/or affiliated HRC club officers have the right to refuse the entry of any dog or handler. However, no handler shall be refused entry based upon religion, race,color, national origin, age or sex. "

Not sure if that means entry, as in at the time of entering the test, or entry, as in even if you successfully enter we can still deny you the ability to run your dogs.



I suppose if clubs want to require this of people attending their events, then after the entry dates closed committee officers should call the people with 'x' number of dogs and courteously ask/remind the entrant to bring help as stated in the premium - and if they can't the club will scratch whatever number of dogs needed to get below the 'magic' number.....

Seems like a royal pain in the butt to me. Easier to catch flies with honey.
I'm not a HRC guy, but I don't really see how it would be feasible for clubs to scratch dogs after the entries have closed! You take (2) pros who have 20 dogs entered and the club tells each of them they are required to supply (2) workers a piece and they refuse, If they scratch x amount of dogs from each pro to get under the number dogs required to supply help, they have just lost 30 dogs at their event!
 

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Anyone who respects the club and the HRC will abide by the rule. Some Clubs wouldn’t be able to have test at all right now in a lot of areas without this rule of getting handlers to help and to require help from those that are running too many dogs to help out. If you don’t like the rules, don’t sign up
 

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My home HRC club has its HT in a few weeks. I also saw the post a few days ago and while we do have our bird techs commited, I did become alarmed.While I do not know the situation of the subject club, I began to think how I will deal with the situation should the bird techs cancel the last minute because of the virus. With the bird techs coming from a school baseball team, I do think that this is a real possibility.

I will be monitoring the Finished entries and see that they are not all concentrated in the same flight. If I see anyone entering multiple dogs in different stakes, I will call them and let them know my concerns. I have already called a pro that has multiple dogs in Finished that will comute and he has said that he can bring 3 bird techs if needed. This could completely handle a test if necessary.

A couple of years ago, I ran a Master only test in South Miss. It began of Friday with 90 dogs. The club did not have bird techs on Friday so the handlers manned the wingers and planted the blinds. When asked I manned a winger as many others did. The test went off without a hitch because when informed of the situation, there were plenty that were willing to help.

These are uncertain times and each club must decide how to approach the situation. A club may have bird techs the day before and none the day of. I am trusting my belief that the handlers will do what is needed to see that the HT is a success. Right now, we are all in a learning situation.

I agree with Joe. Nobody has to go. Again, this is unusual times and each club will need to determne what works best for them and the entrants. I think that it is good that there will be different approaches to the problem and we will all learn.
 

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in re: Bird techs from a baseball team. A funny but true story.

One of the first test I went to as a competitor was the Tallahassee club's first or second test. On Sunday one thrower for the double was at the edge of trees but right near the gallery. The test dog was called and a thrower put out a really wimpy throw. Ready for dog#1 but the judges called to the boy and asked that he throw the pigeon a bit farther into the field. Second dog and the judge asked again for a bit further throw, A couple of bird boys were there and the original thrower said to his friend, "I can't throw it further. so the friend changed places. The third dog came to the line and when the bird was called for the kid reared back and threw. The bird boys were from the local minor league team and the new thrower was the ace center fielder. He had just wadded the bird into a round ball and let fly. As far as I know, the bird hasn't landed yet.
 

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My HRC club had a test earlier this year and several of the handlers also volunteered as bird techs. I also just got an email from club putting on a test at the end of September asking about volunteers.

So far it seems that most handlers are willing to pitch in and help. I know I'm more than happy to run a winger for an hour if it means I get to run my dog.
 

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I just looked over the HRC rulebook, and only saw that it states, "There is a collective limit of twelve (12) dogs per
handler, per licensed regular hunt and upland hunt." Nothing about bringing bird techs, so that have been an individual club. My feeling is the reason they want them to bring help is so they can have help bringing dogs back and forth to the line in a timely manner. With each hunt limited in entries, if no one brings 6 dogs, then the club still has to handle the # of dogs in the hunt and thus enough bird techs. That being said I have thrown several times for clubs just to help things go faster.
 

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Nate, what has happened to several HRC clubs near me is that their bird techs are canceling or unable to come due to COVID impacts - quarantines etc. So, it's either have the handlers pitch in or not get to run a test. Doesn't seem unfair or unreasonable to me under the circumstances to ask people running multiple dogs to do their fair share.
 

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Back in he 80's and 90's handlers at Ht's pitched in at every test I ever attended. Hiring 'bird techs' was unheard of. Those who didn't were the butt of many a joke. Hiring help has been a major component of entry fees going up.

I don't see what the big deal is. If you are training retrievers you have to throw birds or tend wingers. Even if you have 7 dogs to run, that only takes up 2-3 hours out of the day. Most are only running 1 or 2 dogs. People need to get off their butt and help the clubs out. - Paul
 

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Pretty much everyone helps at HRC anyway, you don't help the test doesn't get put on, it's more of a culture thing. Clubs have a a lot of lee-way on how they run their tests. Who enforces anything? The club usually does it, they take notes and write reports. Other than that; handlers marshal themselves; and if someone attempts to skirt rules you will find yourself in a committee meeting. I will say you take advantage of particular HRC clubs; yes you could be very well ordered off the grounds and The club very well just might scratch all of your dogs, or refuse you entry next test. DO it a few times You most likely will be reported to HRC corporate and it will also be addressed by the BOD. A finished flight is limited to 30 dogs period; not to hard to fill that with amateurs or single dog handlers during normal times let alone during Covid times. HRC clubs are small they don't really need massive entries to break even nor even make a bit of money. Pros or mulitple dog handlers need these tests; and they need to maintain good HRC relations so they can run the Grand. They do everything they can to ensure that the clubs are happy to host them; most will bring workers, most will help themselves. It's not unexpected to receive calls or emails from the club the rep nor executive committee if something questionable has happened at a test. Grass-roots organization
 

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page 5 of the rules

"HRC, Inc. and/or affiliated HRC club officers have theright to refuse the entry of any dog or handler. However, nohandler shall be refused entry based upon religion, race,color, national origin, age or sex. "

Not sure if that means entry, as in at the time of entering the test, or entry, as in even if you successfully enter we can still deny you the ability to run your dogs.

I suppose if clubs want to require this of people attending their events, then after the entry dates closed committee officers should call the people with 'x' number of dogs and courteously ask/remind the entrant to bring help as stated in the premium - and if they can't the club will scratch whatever number of dogs needed to get below the 'magic' number.....
Easier to catch flies with honey.


Never understood that statement. I think flies would prefer a nice steamy pile from the dog more than honey
 

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Never understood that statement. I think flies would prefer a nice steamy pile from the dog more than honey
Be careful, Steve, you never know what might unleash a flood of tears when discussing HRC rules.
 

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The ONLY pro trainer Ive ever seen bring help to shuttle dogs and tech was Chris Akin. There are tons of handlers that bring so many dogs that they pretty much fill up flights and they have zero help to shuttle dogs or help in the field.
 

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I don't understand how what flies like or don't like has to do with HRC rules.
I think DP was just making a veiled poke of fun at hrc. As many (not all) events do not use live shot birds. So the Flys are all in the buckets with the dead birds. Not on the honey.
And commenting on how enthusiastically folks who choose hrc as the dogs playing fetch game of choice defend the rules of that game. Even when not sure of them.

But of course, I could be wrong.
It's bound to happen sooner or later.

Ken
 

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