[Trevor Toberny]

Not Eic tested the pups if one parent was clear and one was a carrier? I was doing a Eic search and saw where someone put that they didn't bcause u made the choice to do the breeding and it's buyers choice if they want to risk having a carrier. With there being some super nice studs out there that are carriers it's gonna almost get to expensive to have a litter and be able to keep one for yourself after stud fee, progesterone, surgical AI, dews, shots and workings then an extra 65-90 per pup for Eic if u use a carrier. To me it's a shame if we don't get to see off spring of Dogs like Ali and skeeter just bcause they are carriers. At red river I was part of and over heard other conversations of Eic and it seems alot of field trailers don't care if there dog is a carrier but yet I hear people mentioning how hard it is to sell carriers..
How many of you would take an Eic carrier if it was free?

 

[Trevor Toberny]

Wormings not workings

 

[pupaloo]

I bought a pup from a litter that had potential for carriers (sire clear, dam carrier). The breeder said if everyone with deposits wanted the pups tested, he would do it. No one cared, my pup is a carier, I don't care. I was never going to breed the dog, either way.

 

[Vicky Trainor]

There was a FC/AFC x FC/AFC litter recently that had carrier pups. I not only would take one free, but I would have purchased one of those pups if I had been in the market for a new pup. Informed breeders will not let a pup being a carrier stop them from purchasing and using that pup in the future in their breeding program. Testing is available to determine the EIC status, so you breed around the results.

This has been discussed ad nauseam. If breeding, test to prevent producing affected. If not breeding, a carrier pup is no problem at all.

 

[kims]

One would ONLY care if the pup is a carrier IF they were planning to use the pup for Breeding stock.

I bred a litter from my EIC carrier bitch to a clear Stud. I did NOT test the litter but let everyone know about the possibility of the pups being carriers. Since I sold ALL my pups on limited registration and NOT for breeding it did not matter.

Being a carrier does not affect the dog's performance in any other way other than for potential BREEDING.

Wish folks were as concerned about Elbows as they are EIC......as that CAN seriously affect a dogs performance and potential.

JMHO
Kim S

 

[runnindawgz]

I have had zero problems selling carrier pups from my last 2 litters.

 

[FOM]

There was a FC/AFC x FC/AFC litter recently that had carrier pups. I not only would take one free, but I would have purchased one of those pups if I had been in the market for a new pup. Informed breeders will not let a pup being a carrier stop them from purchasing and using that pup in the future in their breeding program. Testing is available to determine the EIC status, so you breed around the results.

This has been discussed ad nauseam. If breeding, test to prevent producing affected. If not breeding, a carrier pup is no problem at all.

I'm going to disagree with this statement to some degree because I consider myself an informed puppy buyer, not necessarily a breeder, but an owner of "potential future" stud dogs...I do care if they are carriers. But because I only have males it is hard for me to get a pup by my dogs if they are carriers, it's just the way it is. If I owned a female, I wouldn't worry about it, but that's not the case.

The thing is Trevor, if you don't test, those who are looking for a clear will go else where, those who don't care and like the litter will buy a puppy. You have to do what you think is right for you.

And I didn't just look at "clear" as the sole determination of choosing a litter, there are other health issues (like elbows) to consider along with performance histories of sire and dam (my focus, more so than the sire), repeat litter success, the reputation of breeder, whether or not there is a health guarantee or not, etc, etc, etc...

 

[ErinsEdge]

The most important thing is figure out who you will be marketing your puppies to and go from there. Biggest mistake new breeders make is they assume field trialers will be flocking to them for puppies. I think most trialers look first to the titled female breedings that they have seen run as in FC and/or AFC. Look at the titles of your female and decide who will be realistically looking at your pups for purchase, then decide if it will matter if they are EIC carriers.

 

[roseberry]

trevor,
i just picked up a pup two weeks ago (fc afc x fc) there were two pups left at my spot on the list. one was cnm carrier, one was clear. i go to pick and breeder asks do you want to know which is which? i say nope, i want the pup i want.

then i go through my little, stupid puppy pickin' tests. watch them, walk with them, play fetch with them.....etc. one was clearly more independent and adventure bound, the other a little fireball that fetches fast and hot(just like mr. independent), looks me in the eye and stays right beside me and my wife the whole time. both probably good choices, but i just sold a talented and very independent minded bitch.

i picked the social party animal who is in the middle of anything people oriented. guess what......cnm carrier! btw it was not free!

if all things had been equal in my eval i would have asked which is which and took the clear.

 

[Todd Caswell]

If I'm looking for a male I want a clear one, female really doesn't matter either way, but I will say that I would not buy a puppy with a limited registration.

 

[fishduck]

I just bought an EIC carrier female. The discount made if affordable for me to buy a pup out of a very talented bitch line. She was NOT FREE. If she is talented enough then I will breed her to a clear stud.
Mark Land

 

[firehouselabs]

To answer the OP question, I do not test litters for EIC with one clear parent...unless I am testing for my pick. Once the buyers have made their choices, they get the puppy packet with the results and what those results mean in them. No price difference, no fuss, no headaches, no "left over" carriers.

 

[John Lash]

If I'm looking for a male I want a clear one, female really doesn't matter either way, but I will say that I would not buy a puppy with a limited registration.

Me neither...Trust me to do what is right or sell it to someone else.

It just seems like a great potential for something to go wrong in a couple years. Let's say I've met all the requirements and now I can't find you to grant me full registration. Then what do I do?

 

[Jeff Huntington]

To answer the OP question, I do not test litters for EIC with one clear parent...unless I am testing for my pick. Once the buyers have made their choices, they get the puppy packet with the results and what those results mean in them. No price difference, no fuss, no headaches, no "left over" carriers.

So are you saying you don't test the pups and leave it up to the purchaser? or do you test and give them the results once they buy the pup.

Do you not have folks who only want a clear? I guess if they do, they either take a chance buying from you or go elsewhere? I understand the benefit on your end and I guess you are able to sell the pups.

Interesting though.

Jeff

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

One gene does not an NFC make.

I seriously doubt anyone would give away an EIC carrier with potential and no other issues for free. That's Ridiculous. It's only slightly less ridiculous to charge less for any carrier pup of an excellent field breeding, over a clear pup.

But hey if people want to pay extra $$$ for a clear, a particular color, a particular nationality, etc. etc. etc. That's their prerogative.

An EIC affected dog that has a tendency of collapse, might be re-homed. I know a few that are still campaigned, and have never had an episode of collapse. I know one owner who found out his dog is EIC Affected only because he did the genetic test. There have even been a few very highly preforming field dogs that are EIC AFFECTED, that have been bred several times. Such dogs are still be being bred, to clear partners, (certain titles will do that) resulting in a litter of nothing but carriers. I will have to check just to make sure they're not giving all the pups away, out of such litters. I'd definitely take one.

 

[Bridget Bodine]

Nothing wrong with a carrier of anything....to those that think your boys need to be clear for stud services , that really is a dream , your average dog is not EVER going to be looked at for stud...unless it is someone local and then just make sure the bitch is clear....

 

[Hunt'EmUp]

One gene does not an NFC make.

I seriously doubt anyone would give away an EIC carrier with potential and no other issues for free. That's Ridiculous. It's only slightly less ridiculous to charge less for any carrier pup of an excellent field breeding, than a clear pup.

But hey if people want to pay extra $$$ for a clear, a particular color, a particular nationality, etc. etc. etc. That's their prerogative.

An EIC affected dog that has a tendency of collapse, might be re-homed. I know a few that are still campaigned, and have never had an episode of collapse. I know one owner who found out his dog is EIC Affected only because he did the genetic test. There have even been a few very highly preforming field dogs that are EIC AFFECTED, that have been bred several times. Shoot such dogs are still be being bred, to clear partners, resulting in a litter of nothing but carriers. I'm sure they're giving all the pups away, out of those litters.

 

[John Lash]

I've said it before on another thread:

Would you rather have an EIC carrier FC AFC or a common clear dog?

Some big name dogs of the past wouldn't be bred by some today 'cause they were carriers. What if the test was available 25 years ago? What would we be missing today?

Tests are great. What happens if science comes up with a test in the future that shows us some other affected, carrier, clear scenario that impacts 75% of the FT dogs? What happens then? Do we attach a stigma to that issue and stop breeding them too?

We are very fortunate that the test was developed. What if it wasn't and 30 years from now we started seeing many, many affected dogs.

There is no health issue with a carrier. We as people give it the stigma.

 

[Todd Caswell]

to those that think your boys need to be clear for stud services , that really is a dream , your average dog is not EVER going to be looked at for stud

And your definition of average is???

 

[Bridget Bodine]

Average could be many things

Of 150 FC male dogs there are top dogs , bottom dogs and average dogs.....;-)