[Aussie]

Yesterday a canine behaviour friend dropped by. As per usual, we discusssed dog training. He does not know much about retrieving games, neverthless during my training education, various numbers of repetition figures have been thrown about.

How many repetitions are required before a dog learns a single command. My friend mentioned over three hundred!!!!!

 

[DRAKEHAVEN]

The number that I was told was 30 to 50 depending on the dog.
________
herbal vaporizers

 

[blind ambition]

I haven't counted but thereare going to be some variables.
First, not all dogs are created equal some are just smarter than others
Second, not all trainers as equal some are better communicators and are more consistant in their communication
Third, some tasks are easier than others to teach. For example it won't take even the least cranially endowed canine 300 repetations to know to come get under your feet when the food dish clinks against the kitchen counter!

 

[ducksoup]

I would think the number of repitions would depend on the dog and how complex the concept is -- do the number that looks like the dog has got it and then do more (always safe) -- proper answer could be the number it takes for the dog to get it right -- but that might be oversimplifying it -- I like the quotes of Rex Carr I have at the end of my posts

 

[afdahl]

I would say, in some circumstances, one.

This kind of thing makes me cranky. A behaviorist is supposed to be somewhat scientific, so I would hope he or she would acknowledge that the definition of when something is said to be "learned" and the circumstances in which something is taught play a big role.

In clicker training, where a dog does lots of repetitions in rapid succession for small rewards, and then you attach a cue (command), and then you practice "discriminating" that cue, I'd believe 300.

In retrieving, where a dog completes a handful of retrieves a day, for the big reward of doing it, it had better not take 300 apiece.

Amy Dahl

 

[Aussie]

Another question if I may add, if a dog is mentally stressed, what are your thoughts on learning capability?

 

[goldeneye]

Your friend, a canine behaviorist, suggested a dog takes over THREE HUNDRED repetitions to learn a command?

I think that friend should seek a new career!

 

[brian lewis]

reps

I was told that after 200 reps good or bad it becomes a habit.

Its on the dry erase board hanging in the kennel building. Something I'll never forget.

 

[Miriam Wade]

I think some people over-think these types of questions. Dogs are as different as people. Some are Mensa candidates & some are going to find 2nd grade math a struggle. As has been said-how effective the trainer is at reading his dog as opposed to subscribing strictly to what a manual or flowchart says is critical.

I trained with someone once who had 2 dogs doing cheating singles. One dog clearly understood the ramifications very, very quickly. The other dog (who was given every advantage the first dog had been given) was not the brightest bulb in the package & had many, many more repetitions before it finally dawned on him what the end goal was.

Some dogs too need things "personalized" & to have it very clear that they "done good" and learn better with gradual successes instead of over their head setups with stiff corrections.

M

 

[Angie B]

How ever many it takes to learn the skill.... :wink:

Angie

 

[paul young]

stress is certainly a factor.

a certain amount is necessary to teach some things. an example would be any of the forcing drills.

excessive or undeserved stress (at least to the dog)
will hinder learning. confusion in the dog's mind is always counterproductive.

so we see that reading the dog and stress management are really important; especially if we want to rapidly progress the dog's skills. -paul

 

[Teri]

I also think it depends on how one defines 'learned' a skill.

You teach the dog 'sit' in your living room using a cookie. Has he learned it if you still have a visible treat/bribe? or is it when he responds to the first command when he knows you have a treat but it is in your pocket? or is it with a mild distraction like another person but still while in the living room? or do you feel the skill is learned once it is fully proofed in a wide variety of circumstances--so the dog doesnt know sit until he is steady on the line; steady at honor; will sit with other dogs running loose; sit while handler is out of sight; while a stranger calls him; while food is thrown at their feet.

I think dogs have a basic understanding of the command in far fewer than 300 reps...but need WAY more than 300 reps for to be thoroughly proofed on the command.

You know what they say about statistics and numbers...

Teri

 

[Paul-TEXAS]

I was told by a coach once, "for every one time you do something wrong,
it takes 7 times doing it correct".
He also said, "it takes 21 days to build a habit".

I'm not sure of the scientific validity. :?

Paul-TEXAS


Note: the above comments are food for thought and not meant in
any way, shape, or form to cause mean and/or abusive responses
from those who read it. :wink:

 

[adonika]

If it is something you never want them to learn how to do, only once. If it is something you want them to do really really bad... probably 30+. :lol: :roll: Seriously, it really depends on the dog, how much of what you are asking them to do is a part of their natural tendencies anyway... It depends.

 

[Buzz]

Was this person saying that it took 300 reps to learn a command, or did he mean that it took 300 reps to get a conditioned response?

 

[Buttercup]

How ever many it takes to learn the skill.... :wink:

Angie

Here is a perfect example of the difference between what you would hear from a dog trainer

vs.

How many repetitions are required before a dog learns a single command. My friend mentioned over three hundred!!!!!

What you would hear from a dog behaviorist.

My money is on the trainer.

 

[Granddaddy]

When it was said it depends on the complexity of the concept - I agree. And would add I agree with Rex Carr who said once a concept is learned it should be repeated in subsequent sessions 3-6 times so that it becomes conditioned.

 

[flywaylabs]

I have called it my "one to one thousand" rule. :roll: When they have a behavior you do not want it takes one time to learn it and many times ( or seems like it ) to extingish it.

I have just read an article about letting a dog "sleep" on new learning....repeat three times put them up and bring them out the next day.

 

[Uncle Bill]

I would say, in some circumstances, one.

This kind of thing makes me cranky. A behaviorist is supposed to be somewhat scientific, so I would hope he or she would acknowledge that the definition of when something is said to be "learned" and the circumstances in which something is taught play a big role.

In clicker training, where a dog does lots of repetitions in rapid succession for small rewards, and then you attach a cue (command), and then you practice "discriminating" that cue, I'd believe 300.

In retrieving, where a dog completes a handful of retrieves a day, for the big reward of doing it, it had better not take 300 apiece.

Amy Dahl

Of course this question is "loaded" with beaucoups 'it depends', 'what ifs', and 'it's been my experience'... :roll:

But more importantly is seeing this name on a post once again.

WELCOME BACK AMY.

You still get my vote as having authored one of the best retriever training manuals in use today. Kudos again.

UB

 

[ducksoup]

As pointed out in earlier reply the answer to this original question depends on whether a dog trainer or a behaviourist -- and my money is also on the trainer -- as stated by Angie as many times as it takes -- and I agree with Granddaddy's reply about Rex Carr -- once a concept is learned it should be repeated 3-6 times to become conditioned -- and isn't it amazing that, from the old-time trainers like Carr, Charley Morgan, D.L. Walters, and Cotton Pershall to present-day trainers like Mike Lardy, Dave Rorem, Danny Farmer, and Judy Aycock, the key to training a dog seems to be in being able to read the dog -- or as my pro Dan DeVos from Baypoint Kennels says in his ads "where the training fits the dog" -- no matter how much the FT game (or any other retriever activity) changes, the secret to dog training is not rocket science and is the same as it was years ago -- just remember the KISS principle and use common sense -- break down concepts to bite size lessons -- and repitition until the dog seems to get "it" and then repeat again for good measure