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Please forgive my ignorance...I have not seen many HRC hunt tests.

According the the 2013 HRC rule book:
IX. Lining the blind is not required. The Finished
Hunting Retriever should demonstrate the ability to take
an initial line toward the blind and a willingness and ability
to respond to the commands from the Handler. The
Finished Hunting Retriever must stay under control and
pick up the bird quickly and efficiently. The judge will not
require the retriever to run a predefined route or channel.

What is the reasoning behind the last sentence?

How is a blind corridor not a predefined route?
(I assume HRC handlers must challenge the blind and keep their retriever in the " blind corridor" which I think of as a predefined route or channel)

Thanks.

Skeeter.
 

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I believe this sentence is to prevent judges from requiring a dog "go to the left of the tree" or a dog "be cast onto a point then off a point". A line to a blind in HRC can generally be challenged without being on a certain side of a object or on/off a point of land. For instance in a Qual, a requirement of a blind could be to put a dog between 2 trees or has to go through a small patch of cover etc. in HRC judges cannot require this.
 

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Where do you see the use of the term "Blind Corridor" in the rule you posted?

Hrc requires the dog to show good control, and "Progress" to the blind. The requirements are nothing more than what the rule states.

I was always told. Judges can not require you to "get on a point" or "go over a log" They will however judge accordingly", your attempt to challenge that factor.
They want to see your dog handle.

Gooser
 

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Many times, HRC water blinds are run on rivers. They may well be across a somewhat strong current, that will drift the dog downstream. You will be judged as to how well you "make progress" TOWARDS the blind ,once the dog beaches.
 

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Many times, HRC water blinds are run on rivers. They may well be across a somewhat strong current, that will drift the dog downstream. You will be judged as to how well you "make progress" TOWARDS the blind ,once the dog beaches.
Interesting. So the scoring doesn't start til the dog beaches?
 

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The way I remember it from the seminar, is judges must allow the dog room to recover, should factors take them off-line. Thus the line cannot be specific, as one might see in a FT (where oftentimes certain points on a line/requirements have to be met to accomplish the blind). In HRC if the dog misses something like a point or goes to the wrong side of a tree; but recovers by either improving their line to blind or improving their position to the blind corridor (don't want to say line, becuz you can't distinguish a particular more correct line, even though we all know their is one ;)); the dog is still doing good. Not to say that a dog can run willy-nilly, and not challenge the blind, but specifics cannot be outlined. In the HRC they are looking more at teamwork, and recovery from factors rather than the absolute correct line to a blind. Technically a judge could setup a blind that doesn't have a true straight line to it, where a dog can't get to a blind by running a straight line. The Idea of team recovery is very important in the HRC; They want to see teamwork, control and that the job gets done; not who takes the straightest lines. I believe they put that rule in the rule book, as they don't want judges setting up requirement blinds (dog must go in water (right.Here), hit this point (3/4 of the way down), hit this (bit of) water, go this side of the trees etc. etc.), with no room for recovery.

I've never ran a hunt test blind a across a river (Do it while hunting all the time); Sounds fun; I guess I'll have to make a run down south-back east ;)
 

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I've never ran a blind a across a river; sounds fun; I guess I'll have to make a run down south ;)
He is from Colorado. If you call that South, where the heck do you live?
 

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Interesting. So the scoring doesn't start til the dog beaches?
Judging starts with the initial line. Dog must take a good initial line.
 

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i was a delegate at the National in which this change was debated and voted. It was the most contested issue at that national. Many clubs, including Tim Gibson, were strongly opposed to the change.

Actually, it was nothing more than an attempt by some to water down the standard.

The complaints by the supporters of change of the "outrageous" things some finished judges were doing at the time were such things as:
- requiring dogs to stay in the water on a water blind.
- requiring dogs to go "under the ark" on an "under the ark" blind.

Allowing a judge to require the handlers to "challenge the blind" pretty much did the same thing as what the supporters of the change were trying to outlaw. ;)
 

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Doug.

Interesting! What change? The oldest rule book I have for HRC is 2003. The rule that is quoted above by OP is exact verbatim as the 2003 rule..

What was the change?

Gooser
 

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Never Mind!

I found a 1996 HRC rule book! :) the quoted rule above doesnt exsist in that rule book! In fact, No mention of the requirement or conditions of a blind retrieve at all. Just says a finished and seasoned dog must run 1 water and 1 land blind.. Interesting!

They do talk about the requirement of the dog to handle precisely and without to much noise that in the judges discretion, would disturb the hunt.

I will say also,, that 1996 rule book is quite a bit thinner!! :)

So,, the blind would have been VERY subjective? What were the guide lines?
What WAS the standard?
 

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HRC judges have a pretty tight line to blind if you get wider than they want even though you're still progressing to blind hey will put you out. Had it happen. The fix to this is keeping dog between 2 fingers or knuckles.
 

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Its always best to challenge the blind! But,, then Its up to the Judges to Judge.. One mans "Challenge" may be anothers "Cheat"

Subjective for sure!

Gooser
 

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If the judges have a blind that is challenging while still appropriate to the level being tested there is no reason to pencil whip anyone. That goes for ANY org at any level.-Paul
 

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HRC judges have a pretty tight line to blind if you get wider than they want even though you're still progressing to blind hey will put you out. Had it happen. The fix to this is keeping dog between 2 fingers or knuckles.
Having it happen once is hardly a guideline all judges use.
 

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Example:

Down the shore blind...

The actual '"LINE" to the bird, would have the dog 5 feet maximum off the shore, paralleling it all the way to the point the bird is on.

Most would try and challenge that true line. Some handlers may try to keep dog a little "Fat" of the shore line, but trying to stay in some imaginary corridor.

HRC MAY give some lee-way as to that line 5 feet from shore,as long as your dog stayed wet, or didnt swim out to sea and you as a handler did a reasonable (Subjective) job of challenging that blind.


The dog took your casts,and worked with you, and you picked the bird up quickly. But,, the dog MIGHT not have been in between that two finger or two knuckle deal. The judge would ask himself, "would I hunt with that dog?" AGAIN,,SUBJECTIVE..
 

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Example:

Down the shore blind...

The actual '"LINE" to the bird, would have the dog 5 feet maximum off the shore, paralleling it all the way to the point the bird is on.

Most would try and challenge that true line. Some handlers may try to keep dog "Fat" of the shore line, but trying to stay in some imaginary corridor.

HRC MAY give some lee-way as to that line 5 feet from shore,as long as your dog stayed wet,and you as a handler did a reasonable (Subjective) job of challenging that blind.


The dog took your casts,and worked with you, and you picked the bird up quickly. But,, the dog MIGHT not have been in between that two finger or two knuckle deal. The judge would ask himself, "would I hunt with that dog?" AGAIN,,SUBJECTIVE..
Your example leaves no room for 'recovery' which is stressed at every HRC seminar. Just one of the reasons I don't like setting those blinds up in tests that I judge.-Paul
 

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To me if the line is 5 ft from shore and judges tell you to stay wet I also have 5 ft of water on the other side and still be in the corridor. But that's just me.
What really grates me is when judges tell you you have to stay wet and dogs get out half way and run bank and still pass. So much easier to not say anything.
 

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The dog took your casts,and worked with you, and you picked the bird up quickly. But,, the dog MIGHT not have been in between that two finger or two knuckle deal. The judge would ask himself, "would I hunt with that dog?" AGAIN,,SUBJECTIVE..

Gooser,

The judges would have to use their best judgment. I guess that's why they call it JUDGING!

It's impossible to write the rules to cover every possible permutation that could occur in a test. I prefer to allow the judges to do their jobs without having their hands tied by some rule-makers.

Swack
 

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To me if the line is 5 ft from shore and judges tell you to stay wet I also have 5 ft of water on the other side and still be in the corridor. But that's just me.
What really grates me is when judges tell you you have to stay wet and dogs get out half way and run bank and still pass. So much easier to not say anything.
I also give the dog the same amount of room on each side of the true line. I think the true line should be exactly in the middle if your corridor. The last Q I judged I really emphasized this to handlers and you know many still tried to get between the true line and the shore. We lost half the field on the water blind.
If u want the dogs on a point, I'll put the line such that if the miss the point, they are clearly not running toward the blind. Same goes when I don't want them dry. I make the line well off the point. I also like judges to either draw or describe their blind. Although I'm not a fan if saying if you do or don't do this or that, you are out.

Had a judge describe a blind by saying that planted millet is on line. If you miss it, you need to hope that all the other dogs miss it too. Now this was a FT so not exactly apples to apples, but at least there was no question where you were supposed to at least try to be.
 
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