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hrc seasoned test set-up

8917 Views 44 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  DKR
Was at an HRC test this past weekend, and saw a seasoned water test with the blind INSIDE the marks. Actually it was directly on the same line as one mark, just further. Is the mark supposed to be inside or outside the mark in seasoned, or does it matter. My dog was NOT running, i'm just curious.
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Re: r

Dman said:
threeoak said:
Guess I better start training for bad tests. :? :?
It's always a good idea to train a level higher than what you're running, but this test, if as described, was not legal and should have been stopped and changed.
I'm not saying this was a good setup but I would like to know when running a seasoned blind through the middle of the marks became illegal or since when did you have to run the blind first as DKR stated? Is this a new rule change? Is there a minimum distance between the marks a new rule change as well? I know it may not go with this "understood" philosophy of HRC but I was curious if these are new rules for seasoned. I'm still waiting on my new rulebook so if there are new rules making this test truly illegal I am interested in hearing about them.

again I'm not saying that the test that was described (alot different than having seen an actual test) was not a poor setup, but poor setups and illegal test are two totally different things.

don't think I don't agree BUT until someone decides that it is a good thing to put all of these "philosophies" of Mr. Gibson into rules then it really doesn't matter because someone out there will do the complete opposite.....and be "legal" doing it :wink:

I was only pointing out how people are quick to say something is "illegal" which means the judges are breaking the rules, when in fact the judges are following every RULE there is set out for them.

It still amazes me why there is so much grey area when it comes to HRC testing. On one hand you have the rulebook and on the other you have the "understood" rulebook........Someone needs to just make up their mind on a set of rules to be followed so that things like this example do not and Can't happen legally. Until that happens then I don't think the word "philosphy" should ever be used. We have a rulebook and we have judges, let them judge according to the rulebook and not according to whatever philosophy the field rep or Hunt commitee has because why even have judges, just have field reps and Hnnt commitees do the work. If you see judges who set up test that don't fit what you think HRC should be then don't run under them or don't invite them to judge. It really is that simple when you think about it.
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I'm not saying everything can be written in a rulebook, but when I see or hear the words "can't","illegal" amongst others, then I'm looking for a rule to back that up, this is why I asked if there are new rule changes in seasoned that I am unaware of. This is the only point I'm trying to make, although some test out there don't fit the "philosophies" or aren't setup the way that some feel they should be doesn't make them illegal even though it seems that most of the time someone sees something out of the ordinary or something that doesn't make sense to them, they are very quick to use words such as "can't" or "illegal" very loosely. Some may not want to believe it but there is a big difference between philosophies and rules.

oh and by the way for someone who mentioned earlier that some clubs may be hesitant to tell judges they aren't going to allow them to setup or run a specific test because they are afraid to because they want be there to judge. Procedures are in place to take care of that exact situation........all the way down to being able to use the next most qualified individual a club can find to judge the test (whether they are a licensed judge or not) :wink:

clubs or hunt test commitees should NEVER back down in a situation that they believe is going to cause conflict or harm to their test. A past hrc president and I recently had a conversation about Hunt chairs and commitees. We discussed why it is extremely important to have a hunt chairperson who is also a judge as well as having a hunt commitee that have been judging as well. If clubs can't make this happen then they are obviously not encouraging their membership to join the judges pool.

and Steve,

I'm the last person you need to be quoting a rulebook to. You can simply tell me a page number and I'll already know what your wanting to say.....of course I'll have to add a few sentences to the memory bank when I get my new book. may save you some time with all that typing :wink:
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so steve where can I go in order to read about these philosphies? Let's say i went to my seminar over two years ago back when running blinds in seasoned up the middle wasn't considered taboo, how would I know that this was now a new philosphy? Yet a Hunt Commitee is extremely upset with me because I have set a test that way.....I get upset because they are questioning what I "Know" to be right because I have done it at multiple clubs before and haven't heard or read of any rule changes......

are you seeing this at all? IMHO if HRC wants to have such strict philosophies regarding most situations, because that is pretty much what I gather from seminars and Mr. Gibson's article and everyone who uses the word philosophy when debating rules, then why not put it all into writing? We say we can't make a rule for most situations, yet we can have a philosophy about them?

good luck in starting your judging career steve i'm sure you will be an assett to many clubs in your area.

I don't like to qoute rulebooks to anybody but the only reason I am quoting this is because I want to know if the wording has changed in the new rulebook, I was unable to find 5 separate test in the should state that however.

below is copied from the HRC website under rules/regs for seasoned hunt test:


The Seasoned hunt will have five (5) tests. These five tests shall consist of at least the following: (1) a doublemarked land retrieve, (2) a double-marked water retrieve, (3) a walk-up, or tracking, or quartering test, (4) a blind land retrieve, and (5) a blind water retrieve. Part of the test must include a diversion. Failure of a hunting retriever to pass any of the hunting tests will not prevent the hunting retriever from participating in subsequent tests unless the Handler is unsafe in handling a gun.

honestly if you look at the seasoned rules then you could run a double land blind or a double water blind if you wanted to couldn't you? Would that go against philosphies of Hrc? If we were to walk up to a seasoned test with a double blind would we automatically think it is illegal? is it illegal?

and Chris.....although I absolutely HATE to do it.....please explain to all of us how this test is illegal. I'm sure you are just dieing to let us know :lol:
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