RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,012 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HRC is new to me. Until now, I don't think there have been any tests in California. Now I understand that there is a new HRC club in So. Calif. and a new one starting in No. Calif.

Can someone explain HRC to me as I don't know anything about it.

Do you think the growth of HRC hunt tests could pull entries away from AKC hunt tests ? Or are there enough differences in the two programs/tests that the AKC hunt test folks will not be interested in changing to run HRC ?

I have only questions, no answers,

Helen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,352 Posts
Yes, I'm interested in an answer to this, too being a northern californian. In my case, it would not pull me away from the AKC tests, it would just be another event available. The more the merrier in my opinion. Unless they are overlapping, of course, in which case a person would have to choose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,355 Posts
HRC======= GREAT FOOD!!!! COOL CLOTHES..

AKC======= ARBYS....;-) Bronco Orange ribbons...

Gooser
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,355 Posts
Sorry forgot!!

Both test your dog to a written standard...

Most weekends THATS a Highly debatable subject!!:razz:

Both are fun!!


Goosers problem is the passin part...:razz:


I will say though that it looks like NOW,,,, I is gonna have a dog that kin sit!!( OH GLORY DAYS!!)

She might not move to go git sumpin,,, but by god shes gonna sit...

Gooser:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,805 Posts
HRC is new to me. Until now, I don't think there have been any tests in California. Now I understand that there is a new HRC club in So. Calif. and a new one starting in No. Calif.

Can someone explain HRC to me as I don't know anything about it.

Do you think the growth of HRC hunt tests could pull entries away from AKC hunt tests ? Or are there enough differences in the two programs/tests that the AKC hunt test folks will not be interested in changing to run HRC ?

I have only questions, no answers,

Helen
I feel that the more opportunities for people to become excited and get involved in the sport only strengthen us as a whole. Washington State has 3 HRC clubs. I've run my female in HRC seasoned at the time only because they happened to have events running at the place I trained and, you can sign up the same day as the event is run....no need to use entry express or, worry about closing dates. Pretty cool in my mind.

I know a club of people which I am signed on who also have been trying to open a new club in Western Wa. There is currently only one club. Not sure what the hold up is but, if there were more clubs putting on events in the Seattle area I would join UKC but, unfortunately I can't justify it because the dates our single club local to Seattle runs, I'm always busy in the last two years with other non-retriever hunt tests events. I think Seattle's population is about three times what the population is for some States who run 2-3 clubs? Dunno?

Any-who.....from what I've seen, HRC is nothing but fun and I'd sure like to have more opportunities to run in it. Unfortunately, with gas prices the way they are, I can't afford to run around alot. The next nearest clubs are about $200 away from Seattle so, that leaves me only the one club to run under...like I said, their dates don't work out that well for me....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,877 Posts
Helen both venues get a lot of play in my part of thr country. I see people I know from HRC at AKC tests and people from AKC at HRC ht's. They are different but the same..a place to enjoy working your dogs. My dogs could care less which venue they run in..........they get their CRACK.................DUCKS..:) We should support both programs as they give us a chance to have some fun in this day and age.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
923 Posts
Helen both venues get a lot of play in my part of thr country. I see people I know from HRC at AKC tests and people from AKC at HRC ht's. They are different but the same..a place to enjoy working your dogs. My dogs could care less which venue they run in..........they get their CRACK.................DUCKS..:) We should support both programs as they give us a chance to have some fun in this day and age.
Ditto!!! It just gives you twice as many events to run and compliments each other in levels of difficulty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
I've run them both and liked them both. Next weekend there is an HRC test 45 minutes South of Atlanta and an AKC test about 30 minutes East of Atlanta. The AKC JH and SH flights are pretty light but the MH test had 109 dogs split into 2 flights. The HRC tests are usually well attended, but they don't use an entry service such as EE, so not sure what the entries look like. Because the 2012 MN is just a short drive, I'd think there may be more folks from this area that run both leaning toward the AKC tests so they can qualify to run next year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,270 Posts
One of the major differences is the gun. In AKC you use a fake shotgun and the shots are out in the field at the gun stations. In UKC the handler uses a real pump shotgun and shoots (primer only) popper blanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,836 Posts
We run AKC, HRC and ran NAHRA early on.
No NAHRA now due to distance to events, but a wonderful experience.

We truly enjoy HRC.
It is about having a good time.
Sometimes, the judges are more hopeful for your pass than you are.
The after test festivities are awesome.
Food, liquid refreshment of your choice and the stories flow freely.
The company is terrific and there is a venue to continue testing in the late winter early spring.

I like the intrinsic and practical value of handling a shotgun.
You walk away with safety reinforced.

Try HRC, I am certain you will love it!!


stan b & Elvis


BTW--As far as difficulty, to us, HRC is far more difficult in regard to steadiness due to birds in your face and the safe handling of the shotgun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
One of the major differences is the gun. In AKC you use a fake shotgun and the shots are out in the field at the gun stations. In UKC the handler uses a real pump shotgun and shoots (primer only) popper blanks.
HRC didn't come to my area until Kate was 10 or so, so I started running at the Finished level. We needed 2 passes for her HRCH, but I didn't pursue it. One of the differences in terms of attaining a title is that each level (Started, Seasoned and Finished) accumulates points towards your HRCH. I think Started is 5 points per pass, Seasoned is 10 and Finished 15, so you can theoretically get an HRCH with an accumulation of points (you need 100 points for an HRCH) from lower stakes-not just by running Finished.

The biggest difference is the gun. You need to be comfortable loading and shooting a shotgun and practicing gun safety. Your dog can perform flawlessly, but is still dependent on your gun safety to be carried. I don't remember actually if you are dropped for safety issues if someone else can run the dog for you or if you both are out.

Also, as has been mentioned-your dog is swinging with the gun to look out for marks-not being drawn by calls/shots in the field except at the Started level.

I think HRC is a lot of fun and it's something I would run given the opporunity, but my preference is AKC Master or field trials. That said-I think the dogs like running anything where they can get birds!!! :)

M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I like road kill's post above as it describes what's really important to know (or maybe I should say, what HRC folks would really like you to know) about that program. Let me say that I am an HRC club president, HRC judge, and got started in HRC. I have not run an AKC hunt test, yet, but plan to. I have no bias AGAINST anything, but I guess I have a measureable bias FOR the HRC program.

With that said, I have friends who run both venues as well as dabble in field trails and that is where I get my comparison data. I can personally vouch for the fact that HRC tries very hard to make their hunt tests look and feel like an actual day of hunting. As mentioned, we shoot the gun from the line, we wear camo (Gooser's comment on "cool clothes!"), and the maximum distances for marks and blinds are limited at all levels to realistic hunting distances. This can lead to tests that are, as road kill mentioned, pretty "in your face" at times. We also allow handlers to speak to their dogs (although not touch them at the higher levels) during the test and leave it up to the handler to release his/her dog when the birds are all on the ground rather than being released by the judges.

Those who run AKC tell me that, on average, an AKC test is more technical in the trained marking and control portions and I get a sense that HRC emphasizes obedience to a greater degree, but those are, obviously opinions based only on what I have been told - no first hand experience - yet!

The one universal truth that I can tell you about an HRC test: YOU WILL HAVE A GOOD TIME!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,411 Posts
Helen,

lot's of "differences", but lots of similarities, too. i'll list some diferences, concentrating on finished, which is similar to master:

-you will have to use a duck call, handle a pump gun safely, and shoot at the birds at the top of the arc on the marks.

-on the honor, you will again have to use a duck call, handle a pump gun and shoot at the birds as the judges direct. sometimes 1 bird, sometimes all the birds. you and your dog will be in relatively closer proximity to the honor dog than in AKC tests. think in terms of duck blind close.
-the judges do not release your dog. you do that any time after the last bird is down.

-there are rarely attention getting calls or shots from the field.

-blinds are more often than not already planted (hot) when you are running the marks.

-the judges may select the order marks are to be retrieved. this is not very common, but happens occasionally. be prepared for it.

-marking is considered to be that the dog goes directly to the AOF, and initiates a hunt within the AOF. IF YOU HANDLE WHILE THE DOG IS HUNTING WITHIN THE AOF, THERE SHOULD BE NO DEDUCTION FROM THE MARKING SCORE! if the dog initiates it's hunt outside the AOF or leaves the AOF to hunt elsewhere, that is a deduction, and the dog must be handled crisply to the bird from there.

-there is always a diversion bird thrown at some point in the test. it will land pretty close to the dog's return path, and you will be required to shoot at it.

-birds are almost always launched by a mechanical device. nice, high arc.

-tests are generally not concept designed. not usually tight. land marks can be up to 150 yds, water marks up to 125 yds.

-expect some "in" throws.

-finished tests are limited to 30 dogs per "flight". some clubs will add a flight if they get a big entry.

-there is usually one hunt on saturday and another on sunday, so you get the chance to pass twice in one weekend.

hope this helps! good luck if you participate!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
HRC didn't come to my area until Kate was 10 or so, so I started running at the Finished level. We needed 2 passes for her HRCH, but I didn't pursue it. One of the differences in terms of attaining a title is that each level (Started, Seasoned and Finished) accumulates points towards your HRCH. I think Started is 5 points per pass, Seasoned is 10 and Finished 15, so you can theoretically get an HRCH with an accumulation of points (you need 100 points for an HRCH) from lower stakes-not just by running Finished.(emphasis added by Flying Dutchman)

The biggest difference is the gun. You need to be comfortable loading and shooting a shotgun and practicing gun safety. Your dog can perform flawlessly, but is still dependent on your gun safety to be carried. I don't remember actually if you are dropped for safety issues if someone else can run the dog for you or if you both are out.

Also, as has been mentioned-your dog is swinging with the gun to look out for marks-not being drawn by calls/shots in the field except at the Started level.

I think HRC is a lot of fun and it's something I would run given the opporunity, but my preference is AKC Master or field trials. That said-I think the dogs like running anything where they can get birds!!! :)

M
Actually, this part is not true, but is a common misconception. To earn a Finished title (analogous to Master), a dog needs 100 points. To get the title, though, at least 60 of those points must come in Finished. In other words, you cannot earn the HRCH (Finished) title without passing four Finished tests. You are correct that lower level points count toward your 100, but that simply means that you can get 100 in more than one way:

2 Started passes: 5x2=10
3 Seasoned passes: 10x3=30
4 Finished passes: 15x4=60
100 pts

OR...

7 Finished passes: 15x7=105 pts

Any combination of passes that adds up to 100 points would do the trick, but you must earn at least 60 points from running Finished tests (per the rulebook), so you can't accumulate lower level tests to be called a Finished dog.

Chad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
Actually, this part is not true, but is a common misconception. To earn a Finished title (analogous to Master), a dog needs 100 points. To get the title, though, at least 60 of those points must come in Finished. In other words, you cannot earn the HRCH (Finished) title without passing four Finished tests. You are correct that lower level points count toward your 100, but that simply means that you can get 100 in more than one way:

2 Started passes: 5x2=10
3 Seasoned passes: 10x3=30
4 Finished passes: 15x4=60
100 pts

OR...

7 Finished passes: 15x7=105 pts

Any combination of passes that adds up to 100 points would do the trick, but you must earn at least 60 points from running Finished tests (per the rulebook), so you can't accumulate lower level tests to be called a Finished dog.

Chad
Oops!!! Mea Culpa! It's been a while since I've run HRC.

That said-given all the posts that pointed out the positives (Paul Young's summed it up pretty well)-will say again that HRC is fun and there is a lot of excitement in having more participation due to the gun, being able to talk to the dog and releasing the dog yourself. It's not a sterile test environment!

I used to run NAHRA and loved it. Setups (like HRC) incorporated the things you'd find when hunting-running out of a boat, lots of decoys, etc. I do think both HRC and NAHRA come closest to testing the HUNTING dog.

Honestly-they all are fun and again-the dogs don't care which game they're playing!!

M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,512 Posts
To the OP there is a HRC Handler / Judges seminar being hosted by Sac River HRC in northern CA on April 21 in Redding. This will provide you with almost every answer to your questions. Plus if it works out well we will be doing a demo day on Sunday at their training grounds. This will allow new folks to have a chance to run each level and handle the guns as required at the seasond and finished level.

And to Miriam- Gun Disqualification means you and the dog you are running are done for that day, any other dogs on your truck will need to be run by another handler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
I've run 'em all and our club has, too.

Paul Young's comments sum up the major running differences, but it might be hard to imagine the "swing to the gun" handling on marks if you're used to AKC FT/HT. And handling a gun more realistically adds an element of difficulty you might underestimate if you haven't tried. (I like that, but prefer attention-getting sounds and having the dog find the marks, rather than handling them to see them.)

Road Kill's comments on festivities are something many people enjoy, and I have had some great meals. But that's an extra job for clubs, too. I never liked the beer/water dousings for finishing a title; that's part of the "festivities" I can do without.

You can get "HR" for some number of Finished passes, too. (I only ran enough Started and Seasoned to get judging rights, but then our club left HRC.)

Try it. Only you can decide if YOU like it. If you're into running against a standard you might. (If you're into "competition" run FTs.)

In all the games, good sound tests are what makes it or breaks it for me, so the particular judges make a difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
I have never participated in either or but have been to quite a few, so take this as a grain of salt as basically an outsider looking in. I do have quite a few friends that run both. Personally fromwhat I have seen is that the AKC tests are much more competitive on a personal and at the "dog" level in my opinion where the HRC tests are more fun loving, laid back, like someone else mentioned the judges really pulling for all the dogs to get through, etc. etc. My next dog which will be here this year will be the one that I attempt some of these "tests" with. I have been hounded to hell and back in the past about getting in on them and made a promise to myself that my next dog and myself will give it a good shot and see what happens.

I have absolutely nothing against either or nor have I personally participated. I have just helped guys with their dogs on training days and have gone to the events to support so and so and watch their dogs run. I have followed a few of them coming up through the ranks and have watched the dogs and handlers evolve, what a great great thing to watch transform!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,587 Posts
Lots of good info here. I will add that your concern about HRC tests pulling entries from AKC tests is most likely unfounded. We have lots of HRC and AKC tests in my area and even when the economy is tough, the only tests that seem to always fill up are AKC master. The tough part is scheduling tests that don't step on each other. Down here, because there are so many HRC and AKC tests as well as AKC field trials, it's tough to schedule a test that isn't on the same weekend as another. Since so many folks participate in 2 or 3 of the different venues, it can make for some tough choices and can negatively affect entries. In my experience, the HRC tests are normally hardest hit when this happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
I never liked the beer/water dousings for finishing a title; that's part of the "festivities" I can do without.
Even at a started level you can get the water dousings. When we earned our started title the judges pushed us in the pond, then during the awards I got a cooler full of water dump on me from the person that talked me in to running in hunt test. I ran HRC first then AKC and found that alot of people I had seen run in HRC was now running in the AKC. If I remember you do not have to be a HRC member to run in a Hunt test but if you want to earn the points you have so many days after the test to join for the points to count toward a title. I am also not sure if the dog has to be registered UKC before the test or not. You can Call the UKC hunting program dept. at 269-343-9020 and they will be happy to answer any questions you have.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top