Hunt Test Question

Bubba said:

Lil Dikens Kennels said:

In a SH or MH test the dog is sent on the go bird and picks it up,instead of returning to the handler the dog goes to the second mark and without dropping the first bird,get them both in his mouth and then returns to the line.
How is this judged and why ?

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Not seeing a switch here regards

Bubba

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I would concur.

kg

K G said:

The dog dropped the bird it was retrieving to go for another bird.

kg

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I did not see this scenario above. The dog may have lost one of the birds after picking up both. I have seen it happen when a dog picks up the diversion bird on the way back from a mark.

I watched a dog bring back two snow geese on a goose hunt! :shock: We all cheered. It was pretty darn cool.

My quote from the regs/guidelines was in response to an errant interpretation of the kind of switch that was described as "close" to this scenario.

kg

I had a great dog, my first, that would bring back as many as 3 ducks at once (out of swimming water, during real hunting).

Under evaluation I would draw the dog's hunts (or lack of) and score the marks accordingly as long as the dog committed no major faults. If the dog hunted 3 falls and brought back 2 ducks, then see ya. Otherwise why live in a box that says you can only retrieve the birds in a certain manner.

Tim

I'd concur with the majority here on scoring this.

But take note: If one of MY dogs ignores my come-in whistle and is heading towards another mark or shows interest in the poison bird, then call 911, cause I'm going to need CPR!!!

It seems that anything that happens during at test other than "standard" usually doesn't sit well. i.e. I can think of plenty of occasions that the most effiecient route to/from an AOF would be considered a "cheat". Not against any rule but definately not desired or considered as meeting the standard. Usually gets you aleast a mark down if not worse. Picking up 2 birds at one time is great I just don't think it will draw positive scoring.

If I were sitting in the chair and witnessed this, which I have on a few occasions, mostly with the dog bringing in the mark and the diversion, I would silently cheer it, similar to watching a dog return via land after a lengthy water blind or mark. Anything to speed up the test eh?

UB...always happy to be on the same side of the ledger as Bubba. :wink:

Lil Dikens Kennels said:

In a SH or MH test the dog is sent on the go bird and picks it up,instead of returning to the handler the dog goes to the second mark and without dropping the first bird,get them both in his mouth and then returns to the line.
How is this judged and why ?

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By the rules (of both), this is NOT a switch. For a switch to occur, the dog must drop the original bird.

If the dog didn't have a huge hunt, it should score very high in marking.

If the handler wast blowing "come in" whistles, the dog might be scored down (to the point of failure) in trainability. If the handler was not blowing come in whistles, then the trainability score would be unaffected.

K G said:

The only thing close is a switch and a switch can only be ruled when the dog drops one bird and delivers another.

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From the current AKC HT regs/guidelines, Part III, The Abilities of Retrievers, Section III, Perseverance/Courage/Hunting, paragraph four:

"Switching implies that a dog gives up in its hunt after a search, leaves the area, and goes for another bird, or, when it drops a bird that it is retrieving and goes for another."

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The dog does not have to deliver the bird it goes for in order to be eliminated for a switch.

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Correct, but in the context of this discussion, giving up without finding a bird is not what we're talking about here. In this discussion, the dog already has the first bird.

Russ said:

The dog did not give up the hunt, though, because the hunt was completed, so it is not a switch. The dog is dropped for not delivering all birds to hand. It is still out in my opinion.

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Say WHAT???? :shock:


The dog DID deliver all birds to hand.

Backcast said:

Again, I'm just a newbie, but I would ask "What standard do you train to?" If you told a judge ahead of time that your dog was going to pick them both up then that's awesome, but other than that, it reminds me of the old Pee Wee Herman "I planned it that way" routine - something uncontroled that just worked out well.

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If I had a dog that could do this 100% reliably, when I go hunting for real, I would WANT my dog to do this. It is more efficient and is a BETTER hunting dog.


Real life hunting is the standard. It is why we have these games.

Correct, but in the context of this discussion, giving up without finding a bird is not what we're talking about here. In this discussion, the dog already has the first bird.

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Which is why I went the extra mile in over-explaining my post. I took absolutely NO issue with the original post.

kg

I don't have a problem with it so I'm just playing devil's advocate......

What if in the effort to get both birds in its mouth the dog drops both birds several times while fitting them in?

Did he switch each time he dropped one to reposition the other?

Just playing Devil's advocate remember.

Ken Newcomb said:

I don't have a problem with it so I'm just playing devil's advocate......

What if in the effort to get both birds in its mouth the dog drops both birds several times while fitting them in?

Did he switch each time he dropped one to reposition the other?

Just playing Devil's advocate remember.

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You are gonna squish real good when the bus rolls over you, ya know. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

UB

It will be one hell of a speed bump when it happens. :lol: :lol:

Big and Bumpy Regards

CNBarnes said:

Backcast said:

Again, I'm just a newbie, but I would ask "What standard do you train to?" If you told a judge ahead of time that your dog was going to pick them both up then that's awesome, but other than that, it reminds me of the old Pee Wee Herman "I planned it that way" routine - something uncontroled that just worked out well.

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If I had a dog that could do this 100% reliably, when I go hunting for real, I would WANT my dog to do this. It is more efficient and is a BETTER hunting dog.


Real life hunting is the standard. It is why we have these games.

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There is no doubt that it is more efficient. On occassion I've killed two birds with one shot, real efficient-but I don't train for that. Just lucky that time.
All I'm saying is that if you train that the dog should return after picking up a mark then the dog is not doing what you trained it to do.
So will this be the next bar in competitions?