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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
we have all seen the adds that read "GREAT HUNTING LINES" when someone has a litter of pups for sale that have no HT/FT or CONFERMATION titles for that matter(back yard breeder so to speak)

so what constitutes a "GREAT HUNTING LINE"? just because the sire and or dam can go pic up a bird,does that mean that 2-3 generations back in the pedigree had any kind of "HUNTING DOGS"

example ad:
LAB PUPPIES GREAT HUNTING STOCK

LAB PUPS FOR SALE,8 Y/B/C ZEBRA STRIPED 2 SKUNK STRIPED AND ONE HAS BLUE EYES, BOTH PARENTS HUNT.SIRE IS MY PERSONAL HUNTING DOG NAMED "STUPID".DAM IS MY BUDDIES PERSONAL HUNTING DOG NAMED "IDIOT"WHO ONLY TAKES HER ABOUT 2 TIMES A YEAR BECAUSE THATS ABOUT ALL HE GOES BECAUSE HE IS TOO HUNG OVER TO GET OUT OF BED TO GO.THE SIRE IS FROM A DOG THAT WAS OWNED BY GUIDE THE SERVICE "YOULL NEVER KILL A DUCK WHEN YOU HUNT WITH US GUIDE SERVICES" AND HE HAS BRED HIS OWN DOGS FOR YEARS(NO INBREEDING THOUGH :wink: ) TO MAKE SURE HE HAS HAD THE BEST DOGS POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO HUNT OVER.THE DAM IS FROM MY 2ND COUSIN TWICE REMOVED FROM GREAT UNCLES STEPSONS GRANDMOTHERS DOG THAT SHE GOT TO GO GET HER PAPER FOR HER EVERY MORNING CAUSE SHE COULDNT WALK OUT THERE,BUT MY 2ND COUSIN TAUGHT HER TO PICK UP BIRDS SO WE BRED THEM SO WE COULD GET SOME PUPS CAUSE BOTH OF THEM ARE GOOD DOGS

does that make sense? and how do you know what is "GREAT HUNTING STOCK"
 

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A dog with great hunting lines is a dog with just that, several generations of quality family or preserve hunting companions. Duck hunting is a very traditional sport with some families doing it for many generations. It is possible to find a line of dogs that has proven itself in the field, but not the field trial. Sure this is a subjective thing, but it may give as good a picture as the dog with a JH or SHR that took 15 test to get the title. I say if someone says this then let them show you some dog work from their dog and make sure it is up to snuff, or if it makes you uncomfortable, then get a different pup.

tt

ps. My dog Chief is from "hunting lines" on one side and Kelleygreens/British lines on the other. He is also titled.
 

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D-1, when i first started I was looking for a great hunting dog and that I got.... I didnt know anything anbout the H/T games...All we were looking for was a good hunting dog to retrieve the kill. Sent it with a pro for its training and our pro at that time introduced our dog to the H/T games. After that we have continued in the games and I hunt with him as well........ He's earned his HRCH / SR titles and were working on his master's this fall........(Hes not a dragster but a street rod to say).
 

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Well, about 35 years ago I shot a Wood Duck drake and it fell about 25 yards out in the beaver pond I was hunting in. I had neither dog nor chest waders, so I stripped down to my Fruit of the Looms and started wading out to get my duck. About 5 yards short of the duck I stepped off in the old creek channel. Up to this point the water had been only about knee deep. I was suddenly aware that that water was damn near freezing and everything that was not VERY closely attached to my torso said WHOOOO! I got the duck, but figured I really needed a dog.

I got one from two friends that had dogs I had hunted over and never had to expose my little friend to the colder elements again, for she picked up every thing that I shot--- untrained. Cleo hunted with me and she felt I intimidated her in the blind, so I left MY dog with her in her blind and went down the island to my other blind. Cleo had to tie Corky in the blind with a lead and when she shot a duck, Corky went out and got it, but she brought it to me down in my blind! Cleo decided she wanted a dog of her own and that is how our breeding program began.

We have produced many pups over the years that the owners have put titles on, HR, SR, HRCH, MH, GRHRCH, and one FC-AFC. It all began with a couple of "hunting dogs". It is what you do with the pup when you get it. If that pup is lucky, you have enough sense to teach it what you want it to do.

They all had to start somewhere! Bill
________
Teen live
 

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The bad thing about hunting lines dogs is sometimes the owners dont have there eyes and hips done.Not always but sometimes.Do yall have yall "hunting dogs hips done"?I see some on websites that dont have them done.
 

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Yes on Chief, Cami isn't two yet.
 
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Some of my favorite dogs I've trained have been from "hunting lines" where the clients bought them from folks they knew from hunting AR, MS, etc. etc.

From MY experience, the breeders are typically doing the bare minimum -- usually hips only.

My concern is things like EIC, CNM, eyes, elbows, etc. So far so good on the ones I've trained though, but still.

I would say ON AVERAGE, "they" are EITHER slightly less educated re: breeding or put in slightly less effort to being educated... whichever the case may be...

But I would venture to guess a lot of the dogs are really nice.

One I have here now would plow through ANYTHING from the time she got here to get to a bird. Bad thing is that she's a little to high strung (more than any trial dog I've seen) and she is slightly aggressive (I feel more due to how she was raised than anything, but not positive).

Anyway, she was an INCREDIBLE marker out of the box. And a superior hunting dog. I had just done mini-T with her when she went home for hunting season and he was running her on blinds. The other day, "for kicks", I handled her on a bird I needed picked up (long land run into water) and she did it. Shame on me as a handler, but I was curious... It took a couple of casts to get the water entry, but she looked like a young dog doing an early blind...

Sorry to ramble, but my experience is that they can be very very nice dogs but may not have all the clearances, temperament-type stuff, etc. that we might look in a more "professional" breeding.

-K
 

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D1 .. too funny, but true. Where I'm from it generally means that the dogs in pedigree are known to actually hunt VS the thousands of blood lines that are just pets. Usually can't be proved or disproved. Not a formal title of course but if a new duck hunter is looking for a new huntin' dog. He might actually pick that VS FC/AFC cause they often don't know what the titles actually mean. Huntin' dog is something even I can understand. I've owned labs for many many years before ever "hunt testing" one and when asked I always used to say " nope he's just a huntin' dog". But that means a great deal more than " nope he's just a pet"
 

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or the ones with ch pedigrees and there is one JH 3 gen back
i also like when you see AFC bloodlines and you talk to them and they say the dogs great grandparent has hisAMERICAN Field Champion
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
MRGD said:
I say if someone says this then let them show you some dog work from their dog and make sure it is up to snuff,.
even with seeing the dog work how do you know what the ,grandparents and etc did as far as "HUNTING LINES" there is NO known way of telling what the pedigree brings to the table


Bill Watson said:
It is what you do with the pup when you get it. If that pup is lucky, you have enough sense to teach it what you want it to do.

They all had to start somewhere! Bill

yes Mr.Bill,I understand that,however the point I am trying to make is as a buyer of a pup there is no way of knowing what the pedigree has or had as far as "HUNTING DOGS" even if the parents being working dogs that does not mean that any other dog has ever even seen a bird


Kristie Wilder said:
Sorry to ramble, but my experience is that they can be very very nice dogs but may not have all the clearances, temperament-type stuff, etc. that we might look in a more "professional" breeding.

-K

I am not saying that said pup will or will not be the best hunting dog you will ever own.............when I used to train beagles I had a beagle that someone gave me that was the best rabbit dog I ever owned and had no idea where she came from....he got her from someone in a horse trade and I ended up with her..........ran her with some feild trial champion beagles and several people wanting to breed to her until they found out she wasnt registered


duckdawg27 said:
Usually can't be proved or disproved. "
thats the point I am trying to make


fowl hunter said:
or the ones with ch pedigrees and there is one JH 3 gen back
i also like when you see AFC bloodlines and you talk to them and they say the dogs great grandparent has hisAMERICAN Field Champion
I always call up those ads just for fun :lol:
 

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D1 said:
I always call up those ads just for fun :lol:
I just LOVE the answers you get when you start throwing questions at them.. OSA? What's that? Oh, yes, the puppies have great hips! SURF? After an explanation - They see just fine!

I have a friend who always calls about those puppies, and it is hilarious!!
 

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D1 as I said, there is certain amount of subjectivity or bias that can come forth in such a statement. I wouldn't buy a pup with out getting to know the breeder a little bit. You can't know if it has good hunting two or three gens back unless you do some phone calling of people, and then it just opinion. In the same way you can't know if the breeders non-pedigreed mut/lab got in and finished the job after the stud dog went home. There is a level of trust that must exist. Again, titles are a good indicator, but they aren't everything. How many years did the pro take to get the title on the dog? Did it show good genetics, drive, and intelligence, or was it a stupid dog with no drive that had to be babied the whole time and ran under the "easy" judges? Get to know the breeder, ask for references, watch the parents work if possible, or just by FC/AFC lineage puppies from good lines. Either way is fine. It depends on what you want.

tt
 

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MRGD said:
Did it show good genetics, drive, and intelligence, or was it a stupid dog with no drive that had to be babied the whole time and ran under the "easy" judges? Get to know the breeder, ask for references, watch the parents work if possible, or just by FC/AFC lineage puppies from good lines. Either way is fine. It depends on what you want.

tt
How do you SHOW good genetics? Can a CNM carrier or retinal folds be picked out of a crowd?

I personally have never seen an FC AFC title under 'easy' judges. If that were possible, I'd have done it long ago!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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When I say "show good genetics" I mean in function and form, and in desire and natural trainablility, etc.

I was talking about hunt test titles. That's why I said at the end to buy a fc/afc pup instead. None of them come easy, but the ones based on a standard can be found a little easier.

tt
 

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Very good question. They usually have the pedigree, but haven't shown to have the stuff. Good question.

tt
 

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I ask because some say they would breed a FT washout because she is a good dog and has good abilities but not quit to the standard to run in FT and win.Some of these same people say they would not breed a female that was JUST a hunting dog even if both her parents were FC AFC.My female that I hunt with is a very good hunter and also runs some of the same marks our training group runs there AA dogs on but I dont run her in test or FT.Does she always step on the marks like the others?no,but she always comes back with the bird.Does she run triples and quads>no but she will run doubles and has a great personality and sleeps with my son in bed and loves to please but her early training was very bad and therfore she never made a FT/HT dog.I am not going to go outand run a junior just to breed he because she has a title.
 

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Fowl, to clarify my response to your post, I don't think its bad to breed one at all, since many of them make great gun dogs and hunt testers. What I do think is wrong, is to buy one and tout its pedigree and try to market the pups as "Field Trial Puppies". I just think people should be up front with what type of pups they are producing. That's why my kennel name ends in "Gun Dogs" and I post Chiefs pedigree even though there are no champs until you get back to the British side. Just my thoughts

tt
 
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