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I think if you run enough dogs, watch enough dog/handler teams, judge enough dog/handler teams, you will discover that the push is a cleaver, while the pull is a scapel. In today's field trials, the scalpel is the tool of choice.
 

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I think if you run enough dogs, watch enough dog/handler teams, judge enough dog/handler teams, you will discover that the push is a cleaver, while the push is a scapel. In today's field trials, the scalpel is the tool of choice.

what? ...Is this a trick response ?
 

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Pushing adds pressure and pulling removes pressure. It makes sense that the dog would react more strongly to the former vs. the latter.
 

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A new trend I have seen and I believe Lardy is advocating it - sitting dog and stepping over dog to push. I know Ted and many others on this post advocate the pull. But for Amat like me push has been a valuable tool. I will say this on blinds I only heel on one side which is the left because I am more comfortable lining my dog up on the blind than on my right side. It’s like shooting I’m left dominate. Just my opinion and I have never produced a FC or AFC.
 

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Small typo on Ted's part. I believe he means the second push in your highlighted post to be PULL
No it is in most situations a very correct response
Read the part of Ted's statement that you failed to highlight and it will explain your lack of understanding
I knew it was a typo, but it took about 200 people to read it before you pointed it out
 

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I am extremely new and am trying to learn, this is a very stupid question, But what are yall talking about? pull - push ?
thanks
 

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Pull is using body language (or verbal) to pull the dog towards the handler when adjusting the dog's line. Push is using body language to push the dogs alignment away from the handler's body when adjusting the dog's line.
 

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Push usually is the word heel.Pushing the dog away from the handler. Pull usually is the word here or tapping the leg to pull the dog toward the handler.
 

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Pushing an pulling have 2 different contexts.
1) Here and heel movements
2) goal acquisition through drive or compultion
Which one are you speaking about?
Pete
 

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I have also seen folks use a snap of the fingers to help Push, is that common?

Push usually is the word heel.Pushing the dog away from the handler. Pull usually is the word here or tapping the leg to pull the dog toward the handler.
 

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This is how I use the terms push and pull, heel and here. My dogs heel on one side the left.

I come to the mat, let my dog view the landscape.
"Sit" dog sits on the mat.
"Heel" dog moves front legs left or right. Butt remains planted.
"Here" dog moves head left or right. Body remains planted

Push means I am moving into the dog, pushing it away from me (in this case, left)
Pull means I am pulling the dog into me, which may or may not involve movement on my part.

Ted
 

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Doesn't take many failed attempts, trying to pull a dog off of an attractive flyer and look at tough bird 180 other way, to try the stepping over so you can push or even deliberately step in front of dogs nose to block flyer.
 

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I thought the original question was more in line with where I think Ted and Darren were originally going.... push ('force the dog) and pull ( the dog elicits a response to the command more as a result of self motivation - the dog wants to do the task because he 'wants to do the task')
 

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Doesn't take many failed attempts, trying to pull a dog off of an attractive flyer and look at tough bird 180 other way, to try the stepping over so you can push or even deliberately step in front of dogs nose to block flyer.
It's interesting, I know trainers used to "flip" a dog from one side to the other and the step-over seems to be a lot more popular than the flip now
 

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That is because the flip encourages movement at the line
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think if you run enough dogs, watch enough dog/handler teams, judge enough dog/handler teams, you will discover that the push is a cleaver, while the pull is a scapel. In today's field trials, the scalpel is the tool of choice.
Yes, so from this perspective the cleaver has more power than the scapel....a sledge hammer has more power than a tack driver....

In a different earlier post you wrote "pull has more power than push" which I found confusing,
but did not want to sidetrack that earlier post.

From the dog's perspective,
Push has more power because the handler is invading the retriever's personal space by stepping up.
Pull has less power because the handler is opening up and not crowding the retriever's personal space.


Thank you.
 

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This is how I use the terms push and pull, heel and here. My dogs heel on one side the left.

I come to the mat, let my dog view the landscape.
"Sit" dog sits on the mat.
"Heel" dog moves front legs left or right. Butt remains planted.
"Here" dog moves head left or right. Body remains planted

Push means I am moving into the dog, pushing it away from me (in this case, left)
Pull means I am pulling the dog into me, which may or may not involve movement on my part.

Ted
Not to derail this thread! I would be glad to start another if that need be the case. But, I was wondering what the ballpark percentage of one sided dogs/handlers there may be to two sided dogs/handlers?

Still new, but i pay attention and watch a lot. Of the trials that I have been to so far, it seems to me that most of the top trainers in my area are one sided.
 
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