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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
on another forum when i showed pics of my pup a few people (at least 3) reccomended using ivomec cattle heartworm medication. rntquackaholic, who is a member here, said that her dog still got heartworms after using heartgard every month.

is it 100% safe for ivomec? (i was told as long as he didnt test positive it was ok but if he was positive it might kill him)

they reccomended 1/10cc per 10lbs swallowed...
 

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I've been using it for about 15 years with no adverse reaction except on a Border Collie, it is not recommended for collies. My daughter used heart guard and her dog tested positive for heart worms so we put her on Ivomec and one year later she was clear. Hope this helps.
 

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One bottle will last a very long time. Yes, it is expensive, but the amount of applications will out weigh the cost. Yes, you are correct on the amount 1/10CC for 10 lbs. 1CC = 100LBS
 

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Both these products contain the same active ingredient (ivermectin), no? If Heartgard doesn't work, why would Ivomec be any better?
There is a difference in concentration in Heartguard and straight Ivermectin.
I have been using Ivomec for over 20 years on Labs with no problems if you dose correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
One bottle will last a very long time. Yes, it is expensive, but the amount of applications will out weigh the cost. Yes, you are correct on the amount 1/10CC for 10 lbs. 1CC = 100LBS
just for everyone else's sake 50 bucks for 50mLs. an 80lb dog would need .8cc or .8mLs a month. that equates to 62 months or 5 years.

heartgard brown (51-100) is 28 bucks for a year's supply.

roughly double the price for 5 times the length of service.

and yes they are same ingredient but i beilieve erinsedge is correct different concentration. heartgard has 272 micrograms per brown pill and ivomec is 1%.

so to get the proportions/concentrations we just need to know how much a heartgard pill weighs lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

so since its .5% you just double the dosage basically to .2cc per 10lbs. so in effect you get 60 ml of .5% which is the same quantity as 30 ml of 1% for $25.

3/5 is a little more than half (60%) so 60% of the product at 50% the price

not bad

course i can get ivomec at my local farm store not the case with this.
 

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just for everyone else's sake 50 bucks for 50mLs. an 80lb dog would need .8cc or .8mLs a month. that equates to 62 months or 5 years.

heartgard brown (51-100) is 28 bucks for a year's supply.

roughly double the price for 5 times the length of service.

and yes they are same ingredient but i beilieve erinsedge is correct different concentration. heartgard has 272 micrograms per brown pill and ivomec is 1%.

so to get the proportions/concentrations we just need to know how much a heartgard pill weighs lol.
No need to know the tab weight. As you noted the dosage is given on Heartgard. 272mcg for the 50-100 lb product. The ivermectin solution in question (1%) is 10mg/ml.

100 lb dog, 1ml, people are giving 10mg. 10mg is 10,000mcg. So, with manufactured Heartgard you're giving 272mcg and with the other method you're giving 10,000mcg.

Many have given the 1% solution at that kind of dosage for years, as mentioned. I do wonder though how many have looked at the actual dosage given via that method and what the overall repercussions have been.

Treat, prevent, resistance etc.....
 

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on another forum when i showed pics of my pup a few people (at least 3) reccomended using ivomec cattle heartworm medication. rntquackaholic, who is a member here, said that her dog still got heartworms after using heartgard every month.

is it 100% safe for ivomec? (i was told as long as he didnt test positive it was ok but if he was positive it might kill him)

they reccomended 1/10cc per 10lbs swallowed...
The correct dosage: http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/tdig08.htm

Your dog can test/get heartworms on Ivomec just as it can on Heartgard (same active ingredient). As nothing is 100% and we do get busy with life and forget, etc. Difference; if using Heartgard...they'll pay for treatment. You're on your own if using Ivomec.

A person can do as they please with their own dog/s. But if only having one, two, or four dogs it's cheaper to just buy a product like Heartgard. Even if a person has 20 dogs they'll never use an entire bottle before having to throw it away. They're (bottle seal) not designed to be punctured by a needle a million times and remain sterile. It's designed for livestock, where large dosages are being drawn and a bottle is quickly used. Not nor was it ever intended to receive millions of poke drawing half of one tenth of a cc month after month after month.

Whatever route you decide to take...research, prior. As you see you've all ready been "recommended" an extremely high overdose of it. People tend to repeat what they hear on dosing and just assume it's fact or correct. Their "proof" it was the correct dosage tends to be...their dog didn't kill over. People tend to repeat they hear and in the case of Ivomec the "dosage" is always repeated and repeated inaccurately. Just as the border collie caution is always added...yet nothing wrong with giving a border collie Ivomec. Hence the reason they're on preventatives as are all other breeds. Trouble comes from extreme over-dosing like what you was recommended. Also in researching the usages and dosages for Ivomec you'll see it's a poor choice for worming, as much better and safe options are available, better options than it for mange treatment, etc. Times have changed...this isn't the late 80's or 90's anymore. Parasite are becoming resistant to the drug. Hence the reason in '05 Merck came out with new heartworm preventative treatment protocol recommendations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No need to know the tab weight. As you noted the dosage is given on Heartgard. 272mcg for the 50-100 lb product. The ivermectin solution in question (1%) is 10mg/ml.

100 lb dog, 1ml, people are giving 10mg. 10mg is 10,000mcg. So, with manufactured Heartgard you're giving 272mcg and with the other method you're giving 10,000mcg.

Many have given the 1% solution at that kind of dosage for years, as mentioned. I do wonder though how many have looked at the actual dosage given via that method and what the overall repercussions have been.

Treat, prevent, resistance etc.....
just an fyi miligrams (mg) and micrograms (mcg) are a measurement of mass and mililiter (ml) and cubic centimeter (cc) are a measurement of liquid so they cannot be converted to one another. so the above statment is incorrect. unless something has changed since i took chemistry

the bottle does say that if using 1ml per kilogram (2.2lbs) rate you will get 200 mircrograms.
 

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just an fyi miligrams (mg) and micrograms (mcg) are a measurement of mass and mililiter (ml) and cubic centimeter (cc) are a measurement of liquid so they cannot be converted to one another. so the above statment is incorrect. unless something has changed since i took chemistry

the bottle does say that if using 1ml per kilogram (2.2lbs) rate you will get 200 mircrograms.
FYI, I took a chemistry course or two as well.

The only 'converting' I did was mcg/mg etc.

With the Heartgard mentioned one would be giving 272mcg

With the ivermectin solution (and suggested volume/dosage) one would be giving 10,000mcg.

State specifically what is in error in my post.

ETA:

I now noticed what you put in bold in my post. Does the 10mg per ml of solution confuse you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
FYI, I took a chemistry course or two as well.

The only 'converting' I did was mcg/mg etc.

With the Heartgard mentioned one would be giving 272mcg

With the ivermectin solution (and suggested volume/dosage) one would be giving 10,000mcg.

State specifically what is in error in my post.

ETA:

I now noticed what you put in bold in my post. Does the 10mg per ml of solution confuse you?
the suggested rate (1ml/2.2 lbs for a total of 200mcg of ivermectin) is for cattle. so you could equate this to 1 ml/100lbs for dogs would still get 200mcg (assuming you are using the formula I was given by other people on another forum where you give 0.1ml/10lbs. thus a 100 lb dog would get 1 ml or 200mcg)

so in essence you would be getting LESS ivermectin than a heartgard 51-100lb pill. so it must be the solution's ingredients (alcohol saline or whatever they use) that are making it more effective or absorbable.
 

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FYI, I took a chemistry course or two as well.

The only 'converting' I did was mcg/mg etc.

With the Heartgard mentioned one would be giving 272mcg

With the ivermectin solution (and suggested volume/dosage) one would be giving 10,000mcg.

State specifically what is in error in my post.

ETA:

I now noticed what you put in bold in my post. Does the 10mg per ml of solution confuse you?
I've got a BS degree in chemistry, but it's late in the afternoon and I'm too tired to do the conversions. All I know is that I've given my 70 lb. lab 0.7 cc of Ivomec monthly for the last 10 years, and she doesn't have heartworms. The vet checked her last month. Ivomec costs around $35 for 50 ml online. I also make up dosages for my daughter's labs and a couple of other friends dogs. They haven't contracted heartworms either. I just squirt it on a piece of bread and feed it to them....my girl will eat anything! Notwithstanding claims of heartworm resistance to ivermectin, I believe a large part of the 'resistance' is due to missing dosages or not giving the medicine year round.
 

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blake forget about ivermectin and pinching pennies with one dog. based on previous threads i think the concensus preventative in arkansas, la, ms and west tn is advantage multi. maggie meister, where do you live? i have good friends who are ht pro's in west tn and are religious about the care and treatment of client dogs. none of them trust ivermectin.
 

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Whatever route you decide to take...research, prior. As you see you've all ready been "recommended" an extremely high overdose of it. People tend to repeat what they hear on dosing and just assume it's fact or correct. Their "proof" it was the correct dosage tends to be...their dog didn't kill over. People tend to repeat they hear and in the case of Ivomec the "dosage" is always repeated and repeated inaccurately. Just as the border collie caution is always added...yet nothing wrong with giving a border collie Ivomec. Hence the reason they're on preventatives as are all other breeds. Trouble comes from extreme over-dosing like what you was recommended. Also in researching the usages and dosages for Ivomec you'll see it's a poor choice for worming, as much better and safe options are available, better options than it for mange treatment, etc. Times have changed...this isn't the late 80's or 90's anymore. Parasite are becoming resistant to the drug. Hence the reason in '05 Merck came out with new heartworm preventative treatment protocol recommendations.
Wrong. There is one dose (dilution) of Ivomec for heartworms only and there is another higher dose that is used for Roundworms, Hookworms, Whipworms, ear mites, and sarcoptic Mange mites. I got the doses from a vet in 2000 and I still have the copies of his recommendations. Prior to this I gave the heartworm dosage only but now I give the higher dose for broad spectrum parasite deworming. All my dosages have been done by vets. The reason they keep it lower in Heartguard Plus is for collies and shelties who can't get the higher dosage of ivermectin. They have to add pyrantel to ivermectin to get the rounds and hooks. Before you say it is unsafe you have to understand that many people on here have been using it for a very long time with no side effects and got the dosage from vets. It is diluted with propylene glycol ( if you dilute) because that is how the 1% is diluted in the container.
 

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the suggested rate (1ml/2.2 lbs for a total of 200mcg of ivermectin) is for cattle. so you could equate this to 1 ml/100lbs for dogs would still get 200mcg (assuming you are using the formula I was given by other people on another forum where you give 0.1ml/10lbs. thus a 100 lb dog would get 1 ml or 200mcg)

so in essence you would be getting LESS ivermectin than a heartgard 51-100lb pill. so it must be the solution's ingredients (alcohol saline or whatever they use) that are making it more effective or absorbable.
1ml of 1% ivermectin solution contains what it contains, and that's 10,000mcg of ivermectin.

Injected subcutaneously at 1ml/110 lbs it is indeed formulated to give the indicated dosage to cattle (200mcg/kg) and 300mcg/kg for swine given at 1ml per 75 lbs.

Are you referring to injecting, and to cattle or pigs? Or giving orally to canines?

Essentially all I said was how many mcgs 1ml of 1% ivermectin has in it.

State specifically what is in error in my post.
 

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Main thing I wonder, is why would you buy a 5 year supply for one dog, and if shelf life is 3 years, and you dont know how long that stuff was setting in the feed store not refrigerated. Then you have to store it in fridge, to make it last the shelf life?
Might understand if you had a lot of dogs ..
Curious
Thanks, Brad
 
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