[Robert S. Libberton]

I have a H/T question in Senior to pose to the group:

The Scenerio is Dog A has ran the marks and retrieved a double in a walkup and positioned in the honor area.

The flyer guns pull out the Duck for the next dog (b) who is still in the holding blind.

Dog A's handler is being spoken to by the judge and it breaks towards the flyer guns and is quickly told to heel by its handler. Honor judge tells handler to leash dog and judge on line tells dog b to commence walk-up.

My questions is this a right judgement call in Senior to drop the honor dog if it has a controlled break on the honor with no dog on line.

 

[Bob Gutermuth]

While the honour dog is technically under judgement from the time it is called to the line until it is back of the judges and on lead, this is a no harm no foul situation in my book. Not only was there no working dog on line to be interfered with, but the 'controlled break' (sic) took place between innings so to speak.

 

[lablover]

I agree with Bob.
While technically the dog broke, there appear to be extenuating circumstances.
The working dog, dog b, was not interferred with. Perhaps a light scolding to the handler of dog a by the judge, with an explanation of the infraction.
I'd look at dog a in the next series.

 

[ChrisRobt]

I'm haven't seen an honor on a walk-up...what are the mechanics of this?

 

[Angie B]

Yupper to what Bob and Richard said..... It's senior for gosh sakes....

Though many senior stakes of the last few years that I've run, are set-up like a master minus a mark and judged like a master.

Needless to say I won't be running that stake for a while.

I'm not surprised at all with the call in your scenario Robert, if that indeed did happen...... :?

Angie

 

[Bob Gutermuth]

Is a walking honor REALLY necessary in a senior? or is it just a way to get these dogs to say AMF from the honor?

 

[Angie B]

Is a walking honor REALLY necessary in a senior? or is it just a way to get these dogs to say AMF from the honor?

No it's not necessary and it's stupid....

Angie

 

[Debthomas]

I agree. Thats almost as stupid as a walk up in Jr. Their on a lead. where are they going to go?

 

[JusticeDog]

It's senior for gosh sakes....

The voice of reason. I hope this really didn't happen, although every time I think that, I find out it did.

 

[Granddaddy]

There was a walk-up honor in SR (Saturday) at the Mid-South HRC AKC HT this past spring - both the running dog & the honoring dog left from blinds side-by-side & walked toward the marks & were to sit upon release of the first mark. With a late release of the first mark while I was honoring, we were about 20 yds past the line prior to release. While, we had no trouble there, it seemed that several dogs were confused by whistles by both handlers, in addition to some breaking.

Personally I was not as concerned about the walk-up honor as the potential for unfamilar dogs to get too close to each other combined with a strong & aggressive desire to retrieve - just a situation I don't like hunting or testing.

 

[Bob Gutermuth]

I understand the improtance of an honor. What I do not understand is the mania some , mostly H/T judges have for setting up really difficult honors; walk up honors, honors where the go bird lands in the dogs face(saw an honor dog catch one once as it ricocheted off the water, WITHOUT getting up from a sit), honors where the dogs are within spittin distance of one another, or where the working dog has to run right in fromt of the honor dog for the flier. The last two are just inviting a dog fight One of my personal pet peeves is an honor in the last series of a master when the dogs are all wound up as tight as a cheap clock. I hate seeing a good weekend of dog work going down the toilet on a last series honor. Dogs that are going to break on the honor will do so without the added temptations that some folks build into them.

 

[K G]

It's a senior test. A lesser degree of control is required per the regs and guidelines.

Unfortunately, you were dealing with a greater degree of anal retention on the judge's part.

IMHO, of course..... 8)

kg

 

[Rig]

Even if the dog broke on honor after dog B was on line, it is a controlled break. Controlled break is allowable in Senior is it not? I know I've had a dog do that and it got an orange ribbon that day.

Rig

 

[Robert S. Libberton]

It happened to a training partner of mine. I thought it was BS, but it is her call to speak to the judge. If she won't do it, I have no business doing it for her. But it's a great teaching scenerio of how judges view the honor in Senior.

BTW I don't remember if the walkup was a walking honor or static seen both this summer.

 

[Steve Shaver]

Even if the dog broke on honor after dog B was on line, it is a controlled break. Controlled break is allowable in Senior is it not? I know I've had a dog do that and it got an orange ribbon that day.

Rig

What Rig said.

 

[Robert S. Libberton]

I believe it is tougher to prove that an honor dog wont interfere with the working dog if they break, while the working dog is on line, it is feasable and the rules give leeway to the judges to make the call, but when it happens to you in this scenerio, what will you do?

I believe as judges to work within the guidelines of the stake were judging be it Qual, Junior, Senior when it comes to controlled breaks, if its permissable and the handler can regain control of the dog dont let that issue overshadow the marks unless of course they interfere with the working dog.

 

[Gun_Dog2002]

Sounds like a case of moronitis. I've found it comes on suddenly, usually striking a person on setup day and lasting just a couple of days at most. Unfortunatly there is just nothing you can do other than avoid people who seem to occasionally be affected...

/Paul

 

[Misty Marsh]

To me the honor dog was'nt honoring any dog, but was rather waiting for the gunners to get set-up and wait for the actual honor of the working dog in the walk-up. To my way of thinking as a judge, a dog that breaks on movement in the field will take itself out when the birds come out anyways! Also a judge who starts a conversation with a waiting dog/handler team under judgement should take some responsibility for the situation! I realize that the dog was consideed under judgement and sit means sit, but in a senior stake which allows a controlled break when under judgement, they took it alittle too far in my opinion even if the dog did'nt break when the birds came out for the working dog! It's a senior where it's acceptable to have some control issues, and why in the higher level master those type of dog's get sent home every time!!

 

[Miriam Wade]

Technically-the dog wasn't homoring if there wasn't a working dog on line. It's a shame that (as Misty Marsh said) the judge didn't take into account the fact that he was distracting the handler & allow him to settle his dog back on line & proceed with the test. You do see a bit of bantering back & forth on line at Master, but typically those are dogs that know exactly what is going on & can handle the distraction. A Senior dog isn't expected to have the finished qualities of a Master dog. That's why controlled breaks are allowed there.

To assume that the dog was going to be out of control on the actual honor was unfair.Really irks me when judges assume instead of judge what they see & score it accordingly.

M

 

[Chris S.]

I don?t have a comment on scenario but I?m learning to keep my mouth anytime I?m up on the line. One time a judge made a friendly comment on her bird selection. I relaxed and made a comment back. I think when ?the co-dependent? one heard my voice, she broke down and went for whatever gun station was in view and nearby. The cost of education can be so expensive.

And I?m training in taller/bigger cover now!