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Judgement Call

4420 Views 34 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  Lisa Van Loo
I have a H/T question in Senior to pose to the group:

The Scenerio is Dog A has ran the marks and retrieved a double in a walkup and positioned in the honor area.

The flyer guns pull out the Duck for the next dog (b) who is still in the holding blind.

Dog A's handler is being spoken to by the judge and it breaks towards the flyer guns and is quickly told to heel by its handler. Honor judge tells handler to leash dog and judge on line tells dog b to commence walk-up.

My questions is this a right judgement call in Senior to drop the honor dog if it has a controlled break on the honor with no dog on line.
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It happened to a training partner of mine. I thought it was BS, but it is her call to speak to the judge. If she won't do it, I have no business doing it for her. But it's a great teaching scenerio of how judges view the honor in Senior.

BTW I don't remember if the walkup was a walking honor or static seen both this summer.
I believe it is tougher to prove that an honor dog wont interfere with the working dog if they break, while the working dog is on line, it is feasable and the rules give leeway to the judges to make the call, but when it happens to you in this scenerio, what will you do?

I believe as judges to work within the guidelines of the stake were judging be it Qual, Junior, Senior when it comes to controlled breaks, if its permissable and the handler can regain control of the dog dont let that issue overshadow the marks unless of course they interfere with the working dog.
Another view as reported from a friend of the handler that was dropped:

I read your post about Dog A and breaking on the test. Handler said Dog A was in the holding blind when the Judges said "Guns Up" that's when he broke for the flyer, and he ran past the Judge not all the way into the field but pass the Judge which is a little more than just a controlled break. The Handler said it was a definite "attempt to retrieve" . Most of the people replying agree that a "controlled break would have been okay, but from the way it sounds the Judges were correct to leash him up. Its a lack of obedience and control. I dont think he would have been dropped for a simple controlled break, sounds like it was a little ugly.
I still feel the judges erred. I watched this happen and the handler quickly gained control of her dog. She was speaking to the SH Judge when Dog A broke and maybe said heel twice before Dog A pulled off the break and came back to the honor dog. Because the working dog was not on line he did not interfere with the test. I would have recorded it as a controlled break but not leashed the dog. Had that dog been on line I would have dropped him and allowed the running dog a rerun. The judges made a call and I respect that call, but it was wrong for the level they were judging and it could be a learning lesson for other judges and contestants to have an idea of the threshold of some to critique the honor as strictly as those Judges did.

In Master, Dog A would have been dropped without question but its not Master or the Qual and one must keep the spirit of the stake in mind when sending handlers home who drive considerable distances and pay to run in that clubs stake.

I am curious as to what others have to say knowing this scenario, I would have given him a 0 in trainability so I guess i would have said to leash him up. In Senior the dog shall come tractably at heel and sit promptly at the point designated by its handler and remain quietly where placed until given further orders. After the retrieve and blind he was placed back into the holding blind where he did not obey this command. ON the Honor the Handler of the honoring dog may speak queitly to the honoring dog provided the dogs does not interfere with the other handlers,the working dog OR THE JUDGES. Since Dog A ran past the Judges I think this would apply. Trainability or the abilties aquired through training is generally steadiness, control, response and delivery.
Control in the Senior and Master includes walking tractably at heel off lead, assuming and STAYING in any designated position on line as well as remaining quietly on line beside the handler after delivery of bird.
AKC Rules Moderate Faults said:
11. Controlled Break ? In any Senior test, a slight break after which the dog is brought immediately under control (There are no controlled breaks at the Master level).
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I think it was to inform the handler of any procedures of the honor.
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