While the dog is not at honor, it is still under judgement. All that would happen if it was me judging would be a ding in trainability. IMO, the dog blew off a heel,sit, was re-heeled and sat, and life goes on.Robert S. Libberton said:I have a H/T question in Senior to pose to the group:
The Scenerio is Dog A has ran the marks and retrieved a double in a walkup and positioned in the honor area.
The flyer guns pull out the Duck for the next dog (b) who is still in the holding blind.
Dog A's handler is being spoken to by the judge and it breaks towards the flyer guns and is quickly told to heel by its handler. Honor judge tells handler to leash dog and judge on line tells dog b to commence walk-up.
My questions is this a right judgement call in Senior to drop the honor dog if it has a controlled break on the honor with no dog on line.
And it doesn't get any smarter in Master.Angie B said:No it's not necessary and it's stupid....Bob Gutermuth said:Is a walking honor REALLY necessary in a senior? or is it just a way to get these dogs to say AMF from the honor?
Angie
I don't even see this as a break. No bird was thrown no dog working dog was enroute to or at the line. A Senior dog became distracted between dogs and had to be reheeled, maybe a light ding on trainability. Send the judges to the obedience ring.Robert S. Libberton said:I have a H/T question in Senior to pose to the group:
The Scenerio is Dog A has ran the marks and retrieved a double in a walkup and positioned in the honor area.
The flyer guns pull out the Duck for the next dog (b) who is still in the holding blind.
Dog A's handler is being spoken to by the judge and it breaks towards the flyer guns and is quickly told to heel by its handler. Honor judge tells handler to leash dog and judge on line tells dog b to commence walk-up.
My questions is this a right judgement call in Senior to drop the honor dog if it has a controlled break on the honor with no dog on line.
I still feel the judges erred. I watched this happen and the handler quickly gained control of her dog. She was speaking to the SH Judge when Dog A broke and maybe said heel twice before Dog A pulled off the break and came back to the honor dog. Because the working dog was not on line he did not interfere with the test. I would have recorded it as a controlled break but not leashed the dog. Had that dog been on line I would have dropped him and allowed the running dog a rerun. The judges made a call and I respect that call, but it was wrong for the level they were judging and it could be a learning lesson for other judges and contestants to have an idea of the threshold of some to critique the honor as strictly as those Judges did.Hi,
I read your post about Dog A and breaking on the test. Handler said Dog A was in the holding blind when the Judges said "Guns Up" that's when he broke for the flyer, and he ran past the Judge not all the way into the field but pass the Judge which is a little more than just a controlled break. The Handler said it was a definite "attempt to retrieve" . Most of the people replying agree that a "controlled break would have been okay, but from the way it sounds the Judges were correct to leash him up. Its a lack of obedience and control. I dont think he would have been dropped for a simple controlled break, sounds like it was a little ugly.
I am curious as to what others have to say knowing this scenario, I would have given him a 0 in trainability so I guess i would have said to leash him up. In Senior the dog shall come tractably at heel and sit promptly at the point designated by its handler and remain quietly where placed until given further orders. After the retrieve and blind he was placed back into the holding blind where he did not obey this command. ON the Honor the Handler of the honoring dog may speak queitly to the honoring dog provided the dogs does not interfere with the other handlers,the working dog OR THE JUDGES. Since Dog A ran past the Judges I think this would apply. Trainability or the abilties aquired through training is generally steadiness, control, response and delivery.
Control in the Senior and Master includes walking tractably at heel off lead, assuming and STAYING in any designated position on line as well as remaining quietly on line beside the handler after delivery of bird.
AKC Rules Moderate Faults said:11. Controlled Break ? In any Senior test, a slight break after which the dog is brought immediately under control (There are no controlled breaks at the Master level).
I agree with this comment...why on earth was the judge talking to the handler beween the dogs? Was it for the purpose of asking if the handler was ready or chit chat?K G said:It's a senior test. A lesser degree of control is required per the regs and guidelines.
Unfortunately, you were dealing with a greater degree of anal retention on the judge's part.
IMHO, of course..... 8)
kg
To me this sentence is key because the handler was speaking to the judges. Had the handler been attentive to his dog & quietly giving him a "Sit" would this have happened?ON the Honor the Handler of the honoring dog may speak queitly to the honoring dog
Miriam Wade said:Most of the time when there are delays, I have been asked to step off the line (when honoring) or to put the dog on leash and step off the line.This type of thing happens in Master where there is a delay for whatever reason & the dogs stay put regardless of what is going on in the field, but these dogs have been around the block a few times. To expect the same of a Senior dog is unfair.
M
gmhr1 said:After the dog made the retrieve and picked up the blind he was to go back to the holding blind then he and the working dog were to walk out , the Judge was explaning that to the handler, The Co Judge called Guns Up and the honor dog broke from the holding blind ran past the judges , then the handler brought him under control The Judge said Leash him up.
Can it be considered a break if no bird was thrown to retrieve? Not according to this definition. Also the dog did not break, by rule since it was brought under control. Even if a bird was thrown, the dog qualified for a controlled break, which is allowed by rule in Senior. From where I sit the judges are the ones who violated the judges affirmation form they signed claiming they would know the rules.AKC HT Rule Book PART V Guide for Dealing with Some Interpretational Issues said:1. Break. It is generally understood that a break occurs when a dog makes a movement, that, in the opinion of the Judges, indicates a deliberate intent to retrieve without having been ordered to do so, and cannot be brought under control by the handler.
2. A controlled break is generally when a dog leaves to retrieve before being sent, but is quickly brought under control by verbal command or whistle and returns to the handler. A controlled break in Master calls for a ?0? score (Ch. 5, Sec. 5 [6]).
Yup. Blame the judging seminar. Sort of.Though many senior stakes of the last few years that I've run, are set-up like a master minus a mark and judged like a master.
