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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(4) Delivery of the bird in each level of Hunting Tests must be made to the handler directly, upon return from the retrieve; in any Test it should be given up willingly. A dog shall not drop the bird before delivering it, freeze, or be unwilling to give it up. It shall not jump after the bird once the handler has taken it. A faulty delivery may, depending on the Test, range from a slight lowering of the Trainability score for an isolated offense, to the withholding of a Qualifying score for a severe freeze or “hardmouth.”
copied from the AKC rule book so my question is......
How big a markdown is dropping a bird on the return? If a dog pinned a mark and you would give it a 9 but on the return the dog drops the bird but picks it back up....now what would the ding be 7 or 8 or does it even work that way?
 

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Bird handling and delivery is scored under training, which is separate from marking. Four categories are marking/memory, style, perserverance and training. If the dog pins the bird, its' marking score would be 10. Also the rules state that deliberately putting a bird down is different from dropping a bird due to running on rough ground or the dog losing it's grip and having to readjust. The former would be a minor decrease in trainability unless the dog did it frequently. The latter would have no affect on the dog's score.

Dawn
 

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Without knowing the level of test you are referring to and the degree of problem(s) handling the bird....length of time, one bird or all, etc....

...the marking score is one score and the trainability is a wholly different score. Point deductions in the one don't generally affect the score in the other.

Judging is not as absolute a process as some would think. That's why it's called judging, not counting.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OK i will fess up.....Senior test will be my attempt,well maybe. my female gets excited and will sometimes (no matter how many times she goes while airing) stop and pee. MOST of the times she will hold the bird while doing business but will at times put the bird down and then pick it back up.
 

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OK i will fess up.....Senior test will be my attempt,well maybe. my female gets excited and will sometimes (no matter how many times she goes while airing) stop and pee. MOST of the times she will hold the bird while doing business but will at times put the bird down and then pick it back up.
Failure to deliver to hand is a serious dog fault...
"Serious faults listed cover all those instances where the Standard describes conduct of the dog which in and of itself justifies elimination from the stake."

Dropping the bird is a minor dog fault...
Slow pick-up of a dead bird – (except when fluttering or badly shot-up); dropping bird; handling game in a sloppy manner.
Minor Dog Faults. Either severe or repeated or combinations of these “minor” infractions may summate into a “moderate” or even a “serious” fault. Also, they may be so slight as not to warrant any penalty at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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At master level it's a slight deduction but grows if they do it on multiple birds in multiple series could become an issue. In senior less so, bring bird back and deliver not so much.

/Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Some judges will say peeing ON the bird is an automatic disquaification. I dont know if your girl does this.
No i have never seen her pee on bird and it is not chronic most times she holds the bird.PEEING is chronic no matter how long she airs:confused:
 

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Judging is not as absolute a process as some would think. That's why it's called judging, not counting.

Eric
Love it!

I always take this approach: I have a fairly good idea what "perfect" looks like (steps on the marks, lines the blinds, etc.). Anything that ain't perfect will most likely receive something less than a perfect score.

I'd say that in a Senior test, it won't matter too much, but I'd make sure to work on this & other areas of trainability (line manners, leaving the blind, obedience, etc.).
 

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No i have never seen her pee on bird and it is not chronic most times she holds the bird.PEEING is chronic no matter how long she airs:confused:
What do you do in training when she pees? I would correct her in training every time she does it, here nick, and hope to get it to carry over to a test with a here.
 

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No i have never seen her pee on bird and it is not chronic most times she holds the bird.PEEING is chronic no matter how long she airs:confused:
I agree with most of the interpretations already posted regarding minor, moderate and serious faults.

Peeing on the return is something you can work on in training. If she's had adequate opportunity to air before running, I would insist on a prompt return and delivery. Adding a little collar pressure with a "here" command anytime she stops or dawdles on the return, may be justified. Some may not care, but if there are more birds to be retrieved, it's taking time and taking her focus off the job she has yet to do.

I'd make it clear that she airs on her own time and works when it's time to work. Take care of that issue and you won't have to ask what the consequences of having her set the bird down are. Just my 2 cents.
 

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No i have never seen her pee on bird and it is not chronic most times she holds the bird.PEEING is chronic no matter how long she airs:confused:
Have you tried tossing some bumpers during your airing time. I had a female who did the same thing, but by the 3rd or 4th retrieve she'd go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What do you do in training when she pees? I would correct her in training every time she does it, here nick, and hope to get it to carry over to a test with a here.
i usaually let it go or give a verbal correction. i chalked it up to her being excited.... i will crack down a little tougher;-) she tries so hard to please i can be pushed over:D
 

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OK i will fess up.....Senior test will be my attempt,well maybe. my female gets excited and will sometimes (no matter how many times she goes while airing) stop and pee. MOST of the times she will hold the bird while doing business but will at times put the bird down and then pick it back up.

Stopping to pee is minor in my book. They are not robot dogs. As long as she picks it up and brings it in, you be good with me. Peeing ON the bird and you are down the road. BIG difference.

.5 or .75 ding at worse.
 

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i usaually let it go or give a verbal correction. i chalked it up to her being excited.... i will crack down a little tougher;-) she tries so hard to please i can be pushed over:D
Yeah, seriously you can stop it especially if she is doing it in training. It quickly becomes a habit for the dog and they think it is part of the retrieve.
HERE-NICK **every** time will eliminate it.
It is a pet peeve of mine and I don't allow it. Then again I have boys and it usually starts with them trying to show off and mark something after they get their bird. That is short lived!
 

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What if they are not stopping to do #1, but rather #2? Same answer/approach? I think I have a 3-crapper on my hands. Well, not literally. :p
 

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What if they are not stopping to do #1, but rather #2? Same answer/approach? I think I have a 3-crapper on my hands. Well, not literally. :p
Same answer. My training buddies dog is notorious for stopping to dump on the way back from (usually) the last bird. It is very annoying and something he wished he would have nipped in the bud long ago. Especially when he's asked to go out in the field at a test to clean it up! :p The dog is/was a very strong MH and semi-retired now so it certainly didn't affect his performance.
 
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