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Which dog did better?

  • Dog 1 - zig-zag

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  • Dog 2 - right side

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was asked this question by a handler/judge one day while sitting in the gallery at a Qual just BSing and watching the other dogs run, thought it was interesting.

"Which dog did better? Why?"

The little arrow heads show sit whistle - same number of whistles, same number of casts - there are no "goal posts" or obstacles, etc. Just a straight up blind.

dog 1 is as shown on the left and dog 2 is shown on the right



FOM
 

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Dog #1 and Handler did a better job by challenging the blind where as Dog #2 no doubt gave three cast refusals and kept the same right parallel line.
Peake
________
MAGNA
 

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Based on those diagrams, it appears that dog #2 was either refusing what should have been a left back or left angled back cast, OR dog #2's handler was having an "off moment" by giving a back right or right angled back cast, placing the dog further off line. Just a rookie observation....
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Chris Atkinson said:
What's the wind direction?
No wind, calm day! ;)

FOM
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Let's throw this into the discussion as the conversation in the gallery was quiet interesting....

Dog 1 hacked the blind, back and forth, back and forth.

Dog 2 had a more eye pleasing blind - smooth looking.

FOM
 

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I would have had to see the actual cast. If dog one was given 5 angle back cast then it is not bad. If dog 2 was given 3 straight back cast and one angle back then it too was not bad. If on the other hand dog one was given all straight back cast then it stunk up the joint and the same is true if dog two was given angle backs and held the same line it took initially. If dog 2 was sent and took the line indicated and was given back cast each time until the final cast it did not refuse a cast as it continued on the line it too initially from the line. If dog one was given back cast it refused all of them because it took an angle each time.
 

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Dog 1 was taking casts and changing directions. While they were not perfect casts at least the dog was responding to the handler. Dog 2 was taking casts but not changing directions. Was there any terrain or cover or roads the dogs were having to cross or clip that may have caused the dogs to either square in to it or avoid it? That may explain why Dog 1 was so jagged, he may have been squaring in to something where Dog 2 was avoiding it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nik said:
Dog 1 was taking casts and changing directions. While they were not perfect casts at least the dog was responding to the handler. Dog 2 was taking casts but not changing directions. Was there any terrain or cover or roads the dogs were having to cross or clip that may have caused the dogs to either square in to it or avoid it? That may explain why Dog 1 was so jagged, he may have been squaring in to something where Dog 2 was avoiding it.
Nice flat field, medium cover, say a winter wheat field - pretty flat, no terrain, no obstacles to go over.

FOM
 

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As pleasing as it may look from the gallery dog 2 was never on line.
 

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If I'm looking at that in my book, Dog 2 is sleeping in his own bed tonight.
 

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Steve Amrein said:
As pleasing as it may look from the gallery dog 2 was never on line.
And-as has been pointed out-unless the handler was stopping the dog & giving straight back casts-the dog was refusing. Those that said it was more pleasing to watch are overlooking that at least the choppy, zig zags had the dog on line at some points of the blind where Dog # 2 just parallelled.

M
 

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FOM said:
Nik said:
Dog 1 was taking casts and changing directions. While they were not perfect casts at least the dog was responding to the handler. Dog 2 was taking casts but not changing directions. Was there any terrain or cover or roads the dogs were having to cross or clip that may have caused the dogs to either square in to it or avoid it? That may explain why Dog 1 was so jagged, he may have been squaring in to something where Dog 2 was avoiding it.
Nice flat field, medium cover, say a winter wheat field - pretty flat, no terrain, no obstacles to go over.

FOM
But even planted rows, such as corn, winter wheat, ect. can keep a dog from taking an angle through it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: Judging a blind

mike hodge said:
Lainee: How far is/was dog #2 off line at its farthest?
No further away from the "line" at any point than when dog #1 was stopped at.

FOM
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Nik said:
FOM said:
Nik said:
Dog 1 was taking casts and changing directions. While they were not perfect casts at least the dog was responding to the handler. Dog 2 was taking casts but not changing directions. Was there any terrain or cover or roads the dogs were having to cross or clip that may have caused the dogs to either square in to it or avoid it? That may explain why Dog 1 was so jagged, he may have been squaring in to something where Dog 2 was avoiding it.
Nice flat field, medium cover, say a winter wheat field - pretty flat, no terrain, no obstacles to go over.

FOM
But even planted rows, such as corn, winter wheat, ect. can keep a dog from taking an angle through it.
Okay a flat football field. :wink: Not even a mouse hole for the dog to trip over! :D

FOM
 

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FOM said:
Let's throw this into the discussion as the conversation in the gallery was quiet interesting....
Dog 1 hacked the blind, back and forth, back and forth.
Dog 2 had a more eye pleasing blind - smooth looking.
FOM
opinions are like A... everyone has one!
Badbullgator said:
If dog 2 was sent and took the line indicated and was given back cast each time until the final cast it did not refuse a cast as it continued on the line it too initially from the line.
Then I would fail the handler, dog should get a new one.
FOM said:
Nice flat field, medium cover, say a winter wheat field - pretty flat, no terrain, no obstacles to go over.
FOM
and no wind. No reason for the dog not to move toward the line of the blind. For Dog 2 if the dog was withing the "zone of the blind" why did the handler blow any whistles (except the last one). If he wasn't then the dog was not taking the correction.

How many time have you heard someone say, my dog did good he only had one whistle but in reality the dog was in left field and winded the blind.

The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line and that is the line to the blins
 

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The best blind of the two is the one the judges were most impressed with.

Everything else doesn't matter.

This game awards success with more variables than any other game I know.

I see what your getting at FOM but I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer.

I personally would rather have the blind in picture B or #2 but from that diagram I don't see why there was ever a whistle given. I would have let him roll after the first whistle. :lol:
 

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Ken Guthrie wrote:

I
would have let him roll after the first whistle.
Are you serious?

Everyone has seen this on say, a shoreline blind. One handler fights to keep the line-dog scallops-ping pongs, etc. Maybe in the end not resulting in a passing performance, but I'd rather see a handler who attempts to keep the linethan allowd the dog fat all the way to the bird.

M
 

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Miriam Wade said:
Ken Guthrie wrote:

I
would have let him roll after the first whistle.
Are you serious?

Everyone has seen this on say, a shoreline blind. One handler fights to keep the line-dog scallops-ping pongs, etc. Maybe in the end not resulting in a passing performance, but I'd rather see a handler who attempts to keep the linethan allowd the dog fat all the way to the bird.

M
Again, if you were judging than my dog would get dropped. But if someone else was judging my dog may get an B+.

That's why some dogs win some weekends, and other dogs win on other weekends.

Different judges, different opinions.

The only thats for sure when I go to a trial is the beer will be cold at the end of the day.

Plus, you probably won't win with blind A or #1. But there is a chance, if you get carried, you might win with blind B or #2.
 
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