RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner
1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
When handling to a blind and you give a right angle back and your dog goes left angle back because of suction or some other reason, my understanding is that’s considered a cast refusal. Now if you give a right angle back and your dog don’t move at all, is that also considered a cast refusal and is it judged the same way as the first example?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,399 Posts
When handling to a blind and you give a right angel back and your dog goes left angel back because of suction or some other reason, my understanding is that’s considered a cast refusal. Now if you give a right angel back and your dog don’t move at all, is that also considered a cast refusal and is it judged the same way as the first example?

In your example, I would be watching the dog and would not know you gave a right cast and he went left. Could assume poor handling but he moved. Not moving is a different thing and IM book a refusal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
416 Posts
When handling to a blind and you give a right angle back and your dog goes left angle back because of suction or some other reason, my understanding is that’s considered a cast refusal. Now if you give a right angle back and your dog don’t move at all, is that also considered a cast refusal and is it judged the same way as the first example?
As a judge I could care less what cast you give. I am watching the dog to see what he does, if he makes progress to the blind or progress to the line to the blind. If one of those two things happen then you are good.
I know there are some judges that watch the handler and the dog and if the dog doesn't take the cast the handler gave then they call it a CR. Not sure why :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
I don't watch the handler either, but if you give a right angle back because that is the cast needed to improve your dog's progress toward the blind, and the dog goes the other way and does not improve it's progress, that is a cr.
Crazy judges try and place factors in their blinds to see if you and your dog can recover from the suction.

A cast from a handler and no movement from the dog is also a cast refusal most of the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As a judge I could care less what cast you give. I am watching the dog to see what he does, if he makes progress to the blind or progress to the line to the blind. If one of those two things happen then you are good.
I know there are some judges that watch the handler and the dog and if the dog doesn't take the cast the handler gave then they call it a CR. Not sure why :-(
Thanks Bill, I like that answer. One of the reasons that I am asking these questions is that I am someway vertically challenged and when my dog gets out there 200 yards or more I am not sure that she always sees me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,413 Posts
I'll answere a question with a question...
poor form I know,, but,,

What about handlers that dont give a physical cast, but rather use Yaw and gee?


Gooser

Seems to me, ya have to watch the dog and not the handler..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
what do Angel's have to do with casting?
What would you have the op say?
Maybe you can answer it if worded this way...

If your handling on a blind and _____, and the dog _____. Is that a ______?

Come on Gatorb, you know what the op is asking.

Edit: Doh! Sorry Gatorb, just re-read the op.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
I am pretty much in the group with Bill and Derrick in that I pay attention to the dog more than the handler, but I will admit that I do watch the handler but give will credit to the dog. The reason I watch the handler is twofold, one if the handler is doing something stupid and I see that the dog is busting his azz to work with him and overcome his stupidity then I will give him credit for that, and two is for the shear entertainment value and the dog will not suffer from either one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
I never understand the folks that can't or just don't want to see what cast was given and what the dog does. I find that it is very easy to do if you are positioned where the judges usually are. If you arent seeing the handler cast, how do you the dog didnt autocast? Yea I've heard all the arguments about the judge doesnt know that the hadler doesn't give a right over when to send his dog left, or maybe the handler uses mental telepathy to cast or maybe he wiggles his nose like Bewitched. I think all that is BS and in the end, the score on the blinds will likely be the same whether you call it a CR or not. Although I wouldn't have you for a cast refusal if you handled the dog away from the blind, I dont see you being called back if you do it more than once or twice.
The easiest way to know you have a refusal is that the handler immediately blows another whistle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
The reason I watch the handler is twofold, one if the handler is doing something stupid and I see that the dog is busting his azz to work with him and overcome his stupidity then I will give him credit for that, and two is for the shear entertainment value and the dog will not suffer from either one.
I have on occasion done the same thing David. With the handler standing in front of you, it's impossible not to see at least some of what they are doing.

One of the things I don't like to see is a handler giving an angle back with a verbal back. Guess what the dog nearly always does?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,314 Posts
I would first be sure that there was no handler visibility problem ....then score as suggested by most of those above.

john
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
I have on occasion done the same thing David. With the handler standing in front of you, it's impossible not to see at least some of what they are doing.

One of the things I don't like to see is a handler giving an angle back with a verbal back. Guess what the dog nearly always does?
With a verbal mine drive like my girl in the avatar is doing and you had better have been satisfied with the direction that they were going before you gave it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
With a verbal mine drive like my girl in the avatar is doing and you had better have been satisfied with the direction that they were going before you gave it.
That's eactly what most of them do. Short blind and that's most often a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
297 Posts
What would you have the op say?
Maybe you can answer it if worded this way...

If your handling on a blind and _____, and the dog _____. Is that a ______?

Come on Gatorb, you know what the op is asking.

Edit: Doh! Sorry Gatorb, just re-read the op.
Please forgive GatorB, he has issues with Angels................
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,521 Posts
in the first case; it is a cast refusal since the dog is not impoving it's position relative to where the bird is planted.

in the second case; i would take a look behind me to be sure there aren't issues with people moving around or vehicles in the background that are making it difficult or confusing to the dog trying to see it's handler. if so, it may be that the team should be re-run on the blind. if not, see what the dog does on the next cast. if it was one isolated incident, i probably would not penalize the team much. -Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,971 Posts
In general, I would assume the dog was having trouble seeing the handler in background clutter, etc., the FIRST time the dog "non-casted." I would check the background, look to see someone from the gallery where they are not supposed to be moving around and so forth. After that, its a cast refusal.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top