[Lisa Van Loo]

Here's the scenario: you are a Master judge. A somewhat "lively" dog comes to line. As the marks go down, the dog repositions itself several times to get a better view of the action. During this repositioning, it ends up somewhere in front of the seated handler. This "somewhere" exceeds the "creep distance" you and your co-judge agree on.

You ask the handler to re-heel the dog. Just as you say "re-heel your dog" the dog makes a break for it. Handler gets dog back under control.

What do you do next?

Lisa

 

[Miriam Wade]

Dog broke. Sorry. Have a nice day.
M

 

[nelson]

LVL

If the marks were in such a place as to allow the bird boys to pick them up, then thats what I would do. If they were in the water I would give the handler the option to pick them up if he wanted. As a handler I would never let my dogs pick up marks after they had a controlled break. I'd put em in the truck.
Nelson

 

[Kristie Wilder]

oops, I just answered the wrong thing... Meant to say excuse dog and honor on lead... I've never seen anyone do it differently and there's no reason to let a breaking dog run marks unless you have a lot of spare time on your hand, which isn't often nowadays.

-Kristie

 

[Doug Trautman]

I agree with Kristie, handler should pick up his dog and honor on lead.

 

[Steve Bean]

Dog was exhibiting some un-steadiness anyway, a minor fault if any IF it was truly repositioning to see the falls better. However, it still left the line without being sent, therefore, a break. Pick up the dog, honor on lead.

 

[K G]

Ditto what Miriam, Nelson, Kristie, Doug, and Steve said.... :wink: !

Keith Griffith....it was not intentional, Miriam :wink: ...apparently I can only remember four names for about 10 seconds.... :roll: :?.....

 

[Miriam Wade]

Ditto what Nelson, Kristie, Doug, and Steve said.... :wink: !

Keith Griffith

What about me Keith?
M
Who forgot to add "honor on lead"

 

[Doug Main]

Ditto what Nelson, Kristie, Doug, and Steve said.... !

I'm suprised nobody said that they would tell their co-judge what they saw & get his agreement first before having the handler pick up his dog & honor on lead.

Just saying .... :wink:

 

[K G]

Point well-taken, Doug...but....I'd hope my co-judge and I had already discussed what was and what wasn't a break...but you're right...a little confirmation discussion might be in order to make certain there was agreement.

However, I think in this case a little "nod" or "lip reading" might do the trick!!! :wink: !

Keith Griffith

 

[justin harrison - gator]

dog broke...

no marks - doing more harm than good to pick em up....honor on lead soas not to disrupt the test any more than has to be....

it's a tough pill but a good lesson, handler saw what is ONE thing that needed work....hopefully, by denial of birds, dog sees that nothing happens if dog don't sit...gator

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

Good catch, Doug!

Now, let's say one judge said to re-heel the dog, and the other released you to retrieve the birds. What would you, as the handler, do at that point?

Lisa

 

[K G]

I'd release the dog to retrieve and let the judges sort it out....that's why they get paid the big bucks!

:BIG: !!!!!!!!

Keith G.

 

[Brevard Arndt]

It depends :lol: :lol: , I've waited a long time to do that! But it does. It depends on whether it is a 'controlled break", or a break where the handler can't stop the dog from retrieving at least one bird. That said the dog is disqualified and the handler honors on lead. If it is a controlled break then ask the handler to honor on lead. and continue.

 

[Kristie Wilder]

Ditto what Nelson, Kristie, Doug, and Steve said.... !

I'm suprised nobody said that they would tell their co-judge what they saw & get his agreement first before having the handler pick up his dog & honor on lead.

Just saying .... :wink:

Actually... How does that work? If one judge watching honor dog and other watching working dog. Doesn't that give the working dog judge primary responsibility to call the test and ask for the honor on lead? It's kind of a split second decision -- whether you release the dog or not. I mean... If the working dog has possibly broken, then you confer with your judge. meantime, the working dog is about to explode. So you decide to send it, now working dog is all fired up and out of control, blah blah... Should this be an area where the single judge can call it in fairness to the working dog AND honor dog, ESPECIALLY if you're calling it a break. Otherwise, you're making two poor dog wait there on line while you confer?

-Kristie

 

[tom]

Point well-taken, Doug...but....I'd hope my co-judge and I had already discussed what was and what wasn't a break...but you're right...a little confirmation discussion might be in order to make certain there was agreement.

However, I think in this case a little "nod" or "lip reading" might do the trick!!! :wink: !

Keith Griffith

Shouldn't be necessary in most cases (almost all MH handlers know) & say "opps"

tom

 

[paul young]

if the handler makes no attempt to stop the dog, i'd ask him to put the dog on lead when it returned with the bird. if the handler was able to get the dog stopped and reheeled, i'd ask him then.

:?: what's up with this question? the situation is not that complicated, is it?-paul

 

[Doug Main]

Actually... How does that work? If one judge watching honor dog and other watching working dog. Doesn't that give the working dog judge primary responsibility to call the test and ask for the honor on lead? It's kind of a split second decision -- whether you release the dog or not. I mean... If the working dog has possibly broken, then you confer with your judge. meantime, the working dog is about to explode. So you decide to send it, now working dog is all fired up and out of control, blah blah... Should this be an area where the single judge can call it in fairness to the working dog AND honor dog, ESPECIALLY if you're calling it a break. Otherwise, you're making two poor dog wait there on line while you confer?

I'm not sure, that I understand the question. In the example the working dog broke. He got the 1st bird.

Like Keith said., The judges should already know in advance how they are going to score it & what they are going to do.

However, unlike a no-bird, which either judge can call, a DQ must be by agreement. Therefore, I will confer with my co-judge. This is what I saw ... This is how I score it.... Do you agree? It may be as simple as Keith said if we both saw the same thing, a look and a head shake.

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

Shouldn't be necessary in most cases (almost all MH handlers know) & say "opps"

weellll.....

I'd release the dog to retrieve and let the judges sort it out....that's why they get paid the big bucks!

That's more along the line of what I'd do. It's easy to post up on the internet that we'd do the "correct" thing for our dog and refuse to send, even if the judge said "dog" (wonder if this counts as "refusing to follow a judge's instructions"? But I digress...); OTOH, I know I am human, and would probably shine it on if the judge said "dog". At that point, I am probably thinking "They are acting like they didn't see the break, so here goes nothing!" Especially if I am running a dog for a friend, I am more likely to do whatever it takes to get the dog through, and sort it all out afterward, particularly if the judges act like "no harm no foul".

In this hypotheticalbutnotreally situation, one judge said "dog", the dog ran, picked up all 3 marks (YEEEEHAW! Got a reward for breaking!) and THEN the judges conferred, and decided after all the dust settled, that the dog was out because it broke. :?

Not something you encounter every day.

Lisa

 

[subroc]

I am not a judge.

I checked: no birds honor on lead?but I would prefer: no birds and dismiss the dog and handler and get an old war horse that is sleeping under someone?s chair in the gallery to honor on lead. I would rather not have a high dog honor on lead if I had a better option.

Joe Miano