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Here's a hypothetical.

How would you react if you found out that the judge you just ran under had never handled a dog in a ht/ft or even trained dogs much?

Let's say that a person has a thorough knowledge of the rulebook and has prepared him/herself to be the best judge they could be. Does a person have to have handled dogs in tests/trials in order to be a good judge?
And is this situation rare or common?

Larry
 

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I won't say that this hypothetical person will make a poor judge. But I do think that a good judge typically has an ingredient that this person lacks.

Specifically, I believe one of the common things that most good judges possess, is having "been there, done that", and knowing what it is like to be on the other side of the line...because they've done it plenty. I also think it is good for that person to have experienced both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Having a certain appreciation as well as a degree of empathy for what the handlers are experiencing is really best gained by being a handler oneself...before becoming a judge of other handlers.


JMO...Chris
 

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In HRC you had to have trained and handled a dog in the level you are judging.....
 

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How would you react if you found out that the judge you just ran under had never handled a dog in a ht/ft or even trained dogs much?
Depends on how the testing was. If his/her co-judge couldn't "carry" them as a pair, or they together couldn't put up tests to the level necessary to evaluate dogs running at that level, I'd be questioning how serious the club was in putting on a quality event.

Let's say that a person has a thorough knowledge of the rulebook and has prepared him/herself to be the best judge they could be. Does a person have to have handled dogs in tests/trials in order to be a good judge?
itlii would say, unequivocally, no way, no how! :wink:

The first part of this statement is crucial, regardless of their dog experience level. The second part, today more than ever, gives them a better than average shot at being a contributor to the judging "team" on any given weekend. That said, I believe that there are rare occasions where a dedicated "student of the sport," paired with a seasoned veteran, can be groomed into a future asset to the game without having had a competitive dog on the line in an event. The key here is that the event-holding club create a good judging team so that everyone "wins."

And is this situation rare or common?
I think it's rare, although I have no more than my own opinion to support this. It'll happen from time to time, but I believe to dismiss the inexperienced judge out of hand is a mistake, a mistake most often made by those who rely on statistics alone to make their decisions.

kg
 

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Chris Atkinson said:
I won't say that this hypothetical person will make a poor judge. But I do think that a good judge typically has an ingredient that this person lacks.

Specifically, I believe one of the common things that most good judges possess, is having "been there, done that", and knowing what it is like to be on the other side of the line...because they've done it plenty. I also think it is good for that person to have experienced both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Having a certain appreciation as well as a degree of empathy for what the handlers are experiencing is really best gained by being a handler oneself...before becoming a judge of other handlers.


JMO...Chris
What Chris said-at least from a HT perspective and that extends to having experience (successful) at the level they're judging.

M
 

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I am more of the old school in this area. At the minimum I would want my judge to have run a dog at the level he/she is judging. You can read information,watch many tests, but if you haven't had to put yourself in that situation then I feel the judge is not ready.
Jerry
PS
Most dogs in Surprise Az have the handicap of there handlers!!
 

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How does HRC verify the "trained" component?
The local club must write a letter of recommendation. Its up to them to verify the "trained" component. That and the point slip and the dogs UKC registration are required.

So a pro trains your started dog
Why in the world would you need a pro to train a started dog? Its mostly just a test to see if they're breathing.

But, to answer your question, it is possible to judge without having ever trained as long as your club recommends you and you got that point reciept.

Hugh
 

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K G said:
How does HRC verify the "trained" component?

Just askin' regards,

kg
(HRC memb#184 :wink: )

HRC relies primarily on the local club, an officer must write a letter of recommendation for the individual at each level of testing. The individual must then submit a pass slip from that level of testing and pass the judges test. They then can be approved to apprentice under a judge who has met the criteria and is approved to judge with an apprentice. There is also a judges/handlers seminar they are required to attend.
Every step of this has to be approved by the HRC Exec. Sec. before they sit in a chair.
 

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JDogger said:
So a pro trains your started dog
Why in the world would you need a pro to train a started dog? Its mostly just a test to see if they're breathing.
Hugh
Need I point out that the 100's and 100's of RTF lurkers and devoted readers of every thread in an attempt to further their dog. Who are doing their best every day with the limited resources (grounds, stuff, people, program to follow) they have to get their first JH or SR or whatever. And who are finding it to be a serious undertaking and a title to be proud of, now think you are a dork! I don't myself of course, but those 100's of lurkers.......... They will be in a gallery near you. :wink:
 

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AKC Rulebook Chapter 1 Section 7

Section 7. Judges’ Responsibility. It is strongly
recommended that clubs select as Judges individuals
with broad and extensive background experience in
handling and working with Retrievers in the field.
Judges must officiate over all series in their respective
assignments.
A Judge shall not handle a dog in another test until
the test level (or division of a test level) that he or she
is judging is fully completed.
Judges need not set up identical tests when test
levels are divided.
A Judge of a Hunting Test shall be familiar with all
Rules, Regulations and Procedures pertaining to the
type of Test being conducted. Judges shall be thoroughly
familiar with the applicable Standards, and shall
be responsible for judging in compliance with the
Rules, Regulations, and Standards.
I think goes with the poll on who's reputation is more important, the club or the judge.

/Paul
 

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Chris Atkinson said:
I won't say that this hypothetical person will make a poor judge. But I do think that a good judge typically has an ingredient that this person lacks.

Specifically, I believe one of the common things that most good judges possess, is having "been there, done that", and knowing what it is like to be on the other side of the line...because they've done it plenty. I also think it is good for that person to have experienced both the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Having a certain appreciation as well as a degree of empathy for what the handlers are experiencing is really best gained by being a handler oneself...before becoming a judge of other handlers.


What Chris said.
 

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I will give 2 examples of why this is not always true.

1 Big time A list pro that only trains young dogs and does not trial at all. If he ran derby and Q dogs most likely would win and or dominate every trial he went to. Certainly able to set up a test needed to match the level of the dogs and judge it.


2 Husband that trains with the wife every day. Does not handle dogs while training or at trials from puppy stake to national level. Knows the rules and what it takes to set up and run a proper test. Once again not actually handling a dog at a trial but could still judge correctly.

Just cause you are doing it now does not mean that you are doing it right.
 

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Ken Bora wrote:

Need I point out that the 100's and 100's of RTF lurkers and devoted readers of every thread in an attempt to further their dog. Who are doing their best every day with the limited resources (grounds, stuff, people, program to follow) they have to get their first JH or SR or whatever. And who are finding it to be a serious undertaking and a title to be proud of, now think you are a dork! I don't myself of course, but those 100's of lurkers.......... They will be in a gallery near you.

Ken,

You were right. When I returned home and checked my email I found the following message from the ladies at the local sporting dog fancy.

"We have implanted viruses, trojan horses, worms, phishers, spyware and a host of other e-pathogens customized just for you. You might as well throw your pc away, you dork."

Anyway, apologies to the lurking hundreds.

Dorkish regards,

Hugh
 

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There are quite a few judges (hrc) that had there dog pro trained then they ran the dog 1 time got a pass and grandfathered in at a club prelimanary. I agree with Chris. I like the "Been there and Done that " phlosiphy. Even at the grand level there are judges that have never ran or qualified a dog at that level. Unless you have stood in my shoes.... my 2 cents.
 

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Deb,

According to the HRC rulebook:

Grand Judges

There are no specific apprenticeship requirements for Grand Judges. They are selected by the Grand Hunt Committee from the current pool of HRC Licensed Finished Judges.

Hugh
 

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I know what the rules are. I just Think that they should have at least run a dog in order to understand that side.
 
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