[Jesse Higgins]

Should AKC Junior hunt test handlers be required to carry a gun?

If the handler is restraining their dog, doesn't the gun just interfere with that?

If you think they should what do you think it accomplishes?

 

[Ken Newcomb]

A gun and a dog on lead are an unsafe practice even if the gun is fake.

 

[Lisa Van Loo]

Two ways to resolve this: ditch the gun and continue holding the leash, or ditch the leash and carry the gun on all marks. Either solution takes the RHTAC and AKC BOD to make a change. The way it is now, it's neither fish, flesh, nor fowl.

Lisa

 

[Shayne Mehringer]

I'm with my honey LVL!

Shayne

 

[subroc]

A gun and a dog on lead are an unsafe practice even if the gun is fake.

Two ways to resolve this: ditch the gun and continue holding the leash, or ditch the leash and carry the gun on all marks???..

Exactly

Joe Miano

 

[FOM]

Agree with all the above. UKC let's the handler decide by making them choose whether to handle the gun OR steady the dog, you can do one or the other but not both!

FOM

 

[Swampcollie]

I would just a soon see the Gun dropped from the AKC program all together because the handler never is allowed to use it.

Too many handlers have trained their dogs to view any item carried as a heeling stick or training aid. Why do you suppose the good folks in the FT game don't allow the handlers to carry a gun :wink:

If the handler is going to at least pop at the marks, get rid of the window dressings.

 

[Uncle Bill]

I wouldn't go as far as Swamp Collie, but I'd certainly eliminate it at the Junior level, for the various reasons already stated by other posts. It accomplishes nothing at this level.

At the other levels I feel it's an important distinction to make. If you are doing a hunting test, it should include the hunting tools. If you intend to make it resemble hunting, then the gun is an important requirement along with it's safety responsibilities. If it doesn't fit into someones thinking, then there's a program for that called Field Trials.

Sorry S.C., but your thinking is a pet peeve of mine. "Lets continue to throw the baby out with the bath water, so we who don't hunt have our own special brand of a mini field trial." Too damned much of that type of thinking creeping into the hunt test program as it is.

The idiocy of the phoney wooden and toy guns has brought about this entire problem. It angers me every time I think about it. It's by far one of the major reasons I've lost so much respect for the AKC program, is it's continuing bashing of the true hunter, by the PC jerks involved.

UB

 

[Swampcollie]

UB,

I think we're kind of in agreement, I would much prefer to see the handler load up that shotgun and shoot the marks similar to the HRC format. But if the handler is just carrying it around as a decoration and never fires a shot, what purpose does it serve? The good old legal eagles at the AKC are never going to allow a handler to fire a real gun from the line. They have too many concerns about liability to ever allow it to happen.

If they aren't going to let us use them, get rid of them. I'm seeing way to many left handed gun handlers at hunt tests.

 

[Misty Marsh]

The whole gun thing is a pain in the ass, especially for a new guy. I remember the first test I ran last August with my pup, usually she's solid off leash, but after seeing how wound up she got around the other dogs, the scent, and atmosphere I fiqured she'd be gone if I did'nt have her on lead. Anyways we get called up to the line from the holding blind and she's ready to rock and roll, she's dacing at the line, the birds fly, the mock guns up, the leads having to come off, and it's a "gong show" trying to get it all done without tottaly distracting the dog. Anyways my situation is much better now that we have has lots of work with remote launchers etc, but it's still a pain!!!!!!1

 

[brian breuer]

I had brought this up on the "Steady in Junior" thread. At least in AKC you can have a collar to hold on to.

NAHRA requires a slip lead. This is a real pain for back to back singles. Try holding a "gun", taking the bird, getting the bird to judge, and then trying to put the slip lead back on the pooch, and then getting lined up to run the next mark while practicing gun safety. Good luck.

It would be easier to require a steady dog or shove the gun where the sun don't shine.

Interesting comment SwampCollie. There is one guy at our club with a plastic baseball bat (black handle and brown barrel) that he holds backwards and uses as a healing stick. I wonder what his reasoning for doing that is? :roll:

 

[Golddogs]

If the handler is restraining their dog, doesn't the gun just interfere with that?

I do not believe it should. The dogs regardless of the level they are at in testing, are to come along tractably and not dragging the handler along. The objective is to find a "suitable hunting companion" and if you are going to hunt you need a gun.

The fact is if you are heading to the duck blind you should be carrying an unloaded gun to your blind. And if you are hunting a basic trained dog chances are he will be on lead so you are not yelling at him when he heads off to lord knows where.

So when you come up to the line and position your dog for his first mark he is suppose to sit with out you needing to hold him at that moment. Holding a gun and unclipping a lead are very easy to do. Then "Gently Restraining" the dog you call for the marks and have at it. No judge I know of will refuse to hold the gun as you accept the bird from the dog so that is not an issue.

If we truly want to retain the Hunting aspect of these tests, we should be insisting on proper gun handling at all the levels and not just talk about it.

GD

 

[JS]

:shock:
If you are hunting with your Junior hunter, would you be carrying a gun???
JS

 

[Golddogs]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are hunting with your Junior hunter, would you be carrying a gun???
JS

Is that not the reason you are training your dog? Read the purpose for all of these tests. They are to find out if the dog will make a "suitable hunting companion" No distinction is made as to the level of test. Only that they are to be looked at as a dog you would spend the day with.

I can see, if you do not hunt, the gun may be an issue. But this is not how we are set up. If you are to play you need to use all of the tools found while hunting.

A dog under control on lead is not going to cause any problems and if they are not under control they are not ready to be there.

I do not believe in dumbing down simply because it is someones first effort . They bare the responsibility to be aware of what will be required of them and train for it. By dumbing down you do a disservice to all those who put in the time and effort to run a quality test. Will some blow it do to there inexperience? Of course. But that is part of the process and we do no favors by not requiring as much effort from the handlers as we do from the dogs. This is afterall a team effort.

GD

 

[Ken Newcomb]

I am an AVID waterfowler and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER be shooting birds while I had hold of my dogs lead. Clipped to the ground probably but NEVER in my hand.

Having watched my dad get accidentally shot, by his good friend, leads me to say NEVER with emphasis. The dog was not the issue here but only because of dense grass and his glasses is my dad not blind or dead.

GUN SAFETY IS OF FOREMOST IMPORTANCE. If I insist on gun safety with my daughter and plastic toy guns then it should be insisted with adults and the games we play.

 

[Golddogs]

I am an AVID waterfowler and I would NEVER NEVER NEVER be shooting birds while I had hold of my dogs lead. Clipped to the ground probably but NEVER in my hand.

Ken, I totally agree and did not make that clear. All the young dogs we have ever had in a blind have been on a short lead that is attached to the floor of the blind.. Sorry for the confusion. But please read the first response I made. I state that when on the way to the blind when hunting you should always have an unloaded gun. And not having to shoulder a gun in JR I feel is proper and safe while gently restraing the dog.


GD