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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I will be in a situation with 2 puppies within 3 weeks age of each other. I would like suggestions on advisability and best ways of keeping them seperate, to prevent them bonding with each other. Should I rotate one in the house/yard; other in kennel day to day. week to week etc? Or should I keep them in seperate kennels? Also how long do you reccommend keeping them seperate; until they are a year old? Or Longer or shorter? Your input is appreciated.
 

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Similiar age pups.........

:D I keep a pup out of all my litters. That being said I sometimes have almost exactly the same age pups as females tend to cycle together. What I do is keep the pups seperated and do not let them bond with each other or my other dogs. I like to air all mine at the same time......I make sure that I am the center of attention for each of the keeper pups .....I work them seperate. air them seperate....feed them seperaste........U get the idea...........haven't had but one bunch get away (bonded to each other) but I was sick and couldn't do anything about it......:(
 

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Personally I wouldn't have two pups of the same age or even close to each other in age -- too much of a possibility that they might bond with each other instead of to me (pack mentality/socialization) -- so much work -- usually ends up with not enough attention to either pup -- one that lacks whatever will not get enough work to develop better -- one that is doing OK will likely start to fade off as not given enough support to continue to shine -- I don't think IMO that this scenario works
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ducksoup; glad to hear you wouldn't have 2 pups of similar ages; in a perfect world I wouldn't either. But currently circumstances in my less than perfect world dictate that I do !!Do you or anyone else have any advice as to how best to deal with it. Thanks
 

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I have two 2 1/2 year old girls that are six weeks apart in age. I think I made every possible mistake with predictable results.

The older dog has been clearly dominant from day one. While she bonded to me very strongly, the second bonded more to her than to me at the beginning. However, that did not last long.

The worst mistake I made was letting them retrieve things together. It was a lot of fun seeing them both holding the bumper on the way back until I realized that for the younger dog the primary excitement of retrieving became the competition with her "sister" rather than the retrieve itself. She would run quickly to the mark and then wait for the other dog to get there so they could bring it back together.

I'm still trying to correct these mistakes, but I have decided that there are a few basic rules that would have made life better if followed from the beginning.

1. Don't let the dogs share a crate no matter how convenient it seems.

2. When doing training, keep the dogs separate. Leave one in the crate while working with the other.

3. Never throw a mark and let both pursue it. It's ok for them to play chase and tug games with each other but don't join in.

4. I suspect it would be better to feed the dogs separately, although I have never actually tried it. As a consequence I have one dog that overeats and two that are fine, but I can't actually tell you how much any of my dogs eats.

I've added a third pup into the equation. I still feed all the dogs together, but have instituted completely separate training for each. I take the puppy away from the house and the other dogs on a daily basis. since the yard has become too much of the doggy playground rather than a training area.

While she is still bonding tightly to the other two, she is more tightly bonded to me and clearly differentiates "training" from play. I don't even throw fun bumpers unless I can ensure that only one dog is going to chase it. If more than one goes they will end up playing with each other. When I take them all to a training area, I air them together but then put two in their boxes while I work with the third. I used to use them to "honor" each other but now think this only carries negatives and never actually simulates the honor process with a strange dog.

I don't have enough of a track record to say if this approach will work, but I do have enough experience to say that the problems are real.
 

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two pups

Here is a question about that, I was planning on keeping two out of my litter. One for my wife and one for me. If we train them seperately, and I run mine and she runs hers, do you think that is a problem as long as we keep them apart and follow everbody's advice.

Scott
 
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Quick notes...

3x a day play with each other 10-15 mins just for exercise and socialization. this can include dogs besides them.

Other than that, separated... from each other and other dogs.

Separate crates or sleep in separate beds with humans.

"Lessons" separately.

"hang out time" separately. Ideal if there are multiple family members. When joie and I did this (2 puppies -- and we've done it a couple of times) -- one puppy goes one way with one person and one goes the other way with another. So i'd sit in the office working with one with me and Joie would be in the den with another.

Feed separately of course.

It's not ideal. It can be done. The problem is that it generally takes a lot of effort and it's "cute" and easy to just keep them together...

In a nutshell, each puppy should spend more individual time with you (or another known human) each day than it spends with other dogs.

Good news is that if you exercise them properly and keep them busy, they sleep a good part of the day. :)

-K
 

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Ok, I have to ask...

What's so bad about the dogs bonding with each other? :?


I have only done it once, with my first "Jamie litter". I knew I was going to keep a pup and had 1 singled out early. After the litter had sold, the runt was still there (but he had as much drive as the one I had picked out).


So I decided to just keep him too.

They were housed together, fed together (seperate bowls, but at the same time), etc. I would train them seperately, and I did make sure to spend play time with each alone.

By 11 months old, both had their JH titles, 2 started passes, and were beginning handling drills. Performance-wise, there wasn't a plug nickle worth of difference between them. A guy called wanting a started dog, so I sold him the runt, based soley because the other one looked more like Jamie.

2 weeks later, the pup I sold took 2nd in a "national shoot to retrieve" event.
18 months later, the pup I kept went to the Master National.


So... what I'm saying is, based on my experience of doing this one time, I don't see what the big deal is...
 
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CNBarnes said:
Ok, I have to ask...

What's so bad about the dogs bonding with each other? :?


I have only done it once, with my first "Jamie litter". I knew I was going to keep a pup and had 1 singled out early. After the litter had sold, the runt was still there (but he had as much drive as the one I had picked out).


So I decided to just keep him too.

They were housed together, fed together (seperate bowls, but at the same time), etc. I would train them seperately, and I did make sure to spend play time with each alone.

By 11 months old, both had their JH titles, 2 started passes, and were beginning handling drills. Performance-wise, there wasn't a plug nickle worth of difference between them. A guy called wanting a started dog, so I sold him the runt, based soley because the other one looked more like Jamie.

2 weeks later, the pup I sold took 2nd in a "national shoot to retrieve" event.
18 months later, the pup I kept went to the Master National.


So... what I'm saying is, based on my experience of doing this one time, I don't see what the big deal is...
The big deal is -- and sometimes it's more clear and sometimes it's not -- that dogs will bond with whichever animal (human or otherwise) they spend the majority of their time with and "take direction" from.

This is one reason that sheep protection dogs, as an example, are raised solely with the sheep. they bond with them and become protectors.

More often than not -- and it sounds like your experience may have worked outside of this -- the dogs bond TOGETHER and you end up with two dogs who feel THEY are the most important thing in the world. They would rather be with EACH OTHER than with you. They will CHOOSE the other over you.

If your two dogs did none of this, that's great. But on average, if people raise their puppies the way you did, they will end up with two puppies who never reach their full potential because they are MORE DOG SOCIAL than people social.

Those of us who are on here saying it's not a good idea are saying so because we've seen it happen. I see it all the time in obedience and boarding dogs where a family got two dogs and raised them together.

It's great that it seems to have worked for you, but it's generally not recommended.

-K
 

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I've never had a problem with it. They are in seperate crates as youngsters, seperate runs as they grow. Trained individually.

Only time they are really together is when all are airing.

Jerry
 

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Kristie Wilder said:
The big deal is -- and sometimes it's more clear and sometimes it's not -- that dogs will bond with whichever animal (human or otherwise) they spend the majority of their time with and "take direction" from.

This is one reason that sheep protection dogs, as an example, are raised solely with the sheep. they bond with them and become protectors.

More often than not -- and it sounds like your experience may have worked outside of this -- the dogs bond TOGETHER and you end up with two dogs who feel THEY are the most important thing in the world. They would rather be with EACH OTHER than with you. They will CHOOSE the other over you.

If your two dogs did none of this, that's great. But on average, if people raise their puppies the way you did, they will end up with two puppies who never reach their full potential because they are MORE DOG SOCIAL than people social.

Those of us who are on here saying it's not a good idea are saying so because we've seen it happen. I see it all the time in obedience and boarding dogs where a family got two dogs and raised them together.

It's great that it seems to have worked for you, but it's generally not recommended.

I'd like to pursue this discussion a bit.

I have a hypothsis to propose:

What you say above is true ONLY in the case where the puppies have a very limited amount of human interaction. However, if the level of puppy-human interaction is significant (eg. several HOURS per day), then puppy-puppy bonding will not be an issue, regardless of how much time the puppies spend together.


In other words, this is very similar to the reasons people gave for removing puppies from a litter on the 49th day ("the 49 day myth") - actually, the reason is EXACTLY the same (bonding issues). In the 49DM, the story goes that this is when to remove puppies from a litter so they will bond to humans. But what research has borne out is that this is only true if the puppies have had virtually no socialization (which I think we all agree, is a horrible way to raise a litter).

But in the cases where litters have been socialized, much better behaviors result from allowing the puppy to learn how to act like a dog (ie. figure out how it is supposed to act in a pack) by leaving the litter intact up to 13 weeks. Note that this makes dog/human interaction later on much EASIER (assuming the human actually knows how to be the alpha dog).
 

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I’m with Jerry on this.
I currently have kept a male and female from my last litter. This is not the first time either.
What I have experienced is as long as they are kenneled apart. Lead a structured life, all of the training. I have not had any problems.
The only time they are together is maybe once a week when I let all the dogs out at once for play.
With this said I totally understand what Kristie is saying. But it can be done.

TD
 

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Each dog/pup/situation/training/socialization/temperments/inherited traits/and personal experience is different.
I believe like most breeders do that puppies are alot like having a baby. Structure and schedules are important.
Babies and children rely on structure. Why? This way they know whats comming next and it isnt stressful!
Its up to you if you want to raise them together/partially together/ or seperate.
I happen to agree with Kristie on this one.
:wink:
K
 

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raising pups together.......

:D I have not but one time out of 9 times keeping littermates have I had a problem. That was when I came down with my heart surgery. It is a bit of a problem to have two crates but one I don't mind.......Just my .02 cents worth
 

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Don't want to steal anyone's thread, but do you need to have the same concerns with a year or two old retriever and a young lap type dog? My wife is dying for a lap dog, and it is coming whether I like it or not. I haven't really thought it could hurt anything, but I guess it could. Should I take these same extra precautions?
 

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(1) Bonding due to eventual lowing of standards on our part, as free excess simply becomes easier.

(2) Making same training mistakes, if learning.

(3) Time required to rear.

(4) One puppy becomes more dominant. Even when airing this can result with negative outcome.

(5) Very easy to fall in the trap of one puppy better than other, at different times.
 
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