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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I posted on here a couple months ago about a dog I was training that would go out after a mark and after hunting a bit would then give up and come back in. (I believe Mistymarsh was one of the replyers)
Anyway, once in a while we are still having trouble with this with her except now I am almost totally convinced it is done out of Lazyness as it has been done mainly on warmer days.(not too hot)
Anyway, how do I get her to cut the lazyness and get to work? Other than this area, she is doing a fabulous job on her blinds and handling. Get around to birds and she can't get enough of them....
 

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Abby, if you were not so far away, I would suggest that we trade dogs for a week. Thank your lucky stars that you have a dog that will listen and take direction. I know you love your dog, and the training. Good Luck!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
2tall said:
Abby, if you were not so far away, I would suggest that we trade dogs for a week. Thank your lucky stars that you have a dog that will listen and take direction. Good Luck!!!!
Thanks!
I know you love your dog, and the training.
Ditto, ditto. you are very correct in saying that, I love her to death. :D
 

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Pay attention to previous post. This is a young lady training her own dog. I really don think the pro label is appropriate.
 

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What is sounds to me like is that the dog has no work ethic to speak of. Dog will do as long as it is fun but when it becomes hard the dog doesn't want to do it anymore.


Here is how I would handle it. I would start off by doing simple obedience that becomes harder and more demanding then I would release (move immediatly) from the hard and demanding to the fun stuff like retrieving. You can use a platform or if the dog is steady you can leave them on a sit stay and go through SHORT FUN MARKS. If the dog does it more often when it is warm try short sessions during the warmer part of day. As the dogs attitude comes up about retrieving do farther and farther marks.

Just my 2 cents.

KC
 

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Sometimes drive isn't there but you can help it out by trying to use birds as much as possible. More pressure isn't going to help drive.
What is that old saying you can't push a rope.

Stick with it and you might see a change, just be careful what you wish for, these high rolling dogs can make you hold your breath too long. :p

Good luck!
 

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Margo Ellis said:
just be careful what you wish for, these high rolling dogs can make you hold your breath too long. :p

Good luck!
A big AMEN to that!
 

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2tall said:
Margo Ellis said:
just be careful what you wish for, these high rolling dogs can make you hold your breath too long. :p

Good luck!
A big AMEN to that!
But if you pass out BEFORE you hit the ground it doens't hurt......as much ;)

FOM
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Margo Ellis said:
Sometimes drive isn't there but you can help it out by trying to use birds as much as possible. More pressure isn't going to help drive.
She does have her really good days, my brother is like "what got into her??!!" fireball...........
But I will keep using birds, maybe a live flier would do the trick........
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
FetchExpress said:
Here is how I would handle it. I would start off by doing simple obedience that becomes harder and more demanding then I would release (move immediatly) from the hard and demanding to the fun stuff like retrieving. You can use a platform or if the dog is steady you can leave them on a sit stay and go through SHORT FUN MARKS. If the dog does it more often when it is warm try short sessions during the warmer part of day. As the dogs attitude comes up about retrieving do farther and farther marks.

Just my 2 cents.

KC
Will do. She has been drilled on obedience, I try not to let her get by with "borderline" stuff. Thanks for the help!
 

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When you read the opening sentance of the post she does not say my dog, but a dog I was training. I did not infer anything, I just asked a question 2tall.
 

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Abby,

Just out of curiosity, it sounds like you have solved part of the "coming back without the bird" problem. What did you do to solve it? I'd love to hear your solution.

Joe
 
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Be very careful in how you choose to address this...

It could be several things, but is often one of the following:

1) Lack of drive

2) Too much pressure and/or too many blinds

3) Too much recalling FOR THIS DOG

4) Lack of balance in training as far as easy, go-get-um marks versus challenging marks ("everything's a chore")

5) Pressure has been presented in the AREA OF THE FALL or near the GUNNER.

I have yet to see a dog that quits for lack of "work ethic" -- if that APPEARS to be the case, it's normally lack of DRIVE or lack of BALANCE in training.

If a dog quits because it doesn't want to work, it's one of numbers 1-5 USUALLY. HOPEFULLY it's not #1 because that's the hardest thing to fix overall.

You need to evaluate the type of marks and blinds, the mix of them, any pressure you've applied and for what, etc. to see if there's a correlation with why she's responding this way.

Keep in mind, too much, too soon or too often, can diminish drive.

My first approach to a dog like this (I've had two littermates from a show-type breeding that have been "quitters") is to back of to simple, fun singles. NOT short singles, necessarily, but SIMPLE, FUN ones. Have your gun stations holler, jump around, blow a duck call, etc. prior to throwing.

See if THAT gets your dog excited about retrieving.

If the dog gets in trouble on a mark, use gun help.

I ALWAYS prefer to err on the side of LIGHTENING up in this case and see what happens. THEN if you want to go to heavy obedience, yardwork, forcing, whatever... You can. But if you go there FIRST, you may make the situation much worse.

Do that for a few weeks. If you run blinds, keep them simple with room for lots of momentum and no complex decisions. Open water blinds straight across a pond. Blinds in flat fields with short grass, etc. etc.

SIMPLIFY things and make them fun. If you find she's still having trouble or isn't interested... Then you have some decisions to make. A dog that isn't interested or excited to train and hunt up a bird when training is simple and fun... You can MAKE that dog do it if you want... But you will always in the future come back to periods of attitude problems and quitting. It's very hard to maintain a dog with lower drive because you want to have a finished dog and introduce complex concepts, but you have to balance SO HARD with simple, fun stuff that it can be very drawn out and long-term. And if you push too hard, you end up with a dog that will work out of obedience, not desire. It's just not as much fun that way, trust me... That's "the life" of a low desire dog in advanced training...

HOPEFULLY, YOU, as her TRAINER, have just gotten her off balance, done a few too many recalls, presented her with too much difficulty and pressure FOR HER (it's all relative to the dog) and now you have a dog that's quitting. The response is the same as far as simplifying and "letting her run" for a few weeks. Then ease back into the more demanding work, making sure you're balancing it as you go along...

Good luck.

-Kristie
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Kristie Wilder said:
2) Too much pressure and/or too many blinds


4) Lack of balance in training as far as easy, go-get-um marks versus challenging marks ("everything's a chore")
I think you hit the nail right on the head on 2 and 4. I have been running a lot of blinds, not easy ones either. My bird boy went to WA and the remaining "bird boys"(5,8,9) can't throw very far so I have been working a lot on long and hard pattern blinds. The doubles that are thrown are also at about 200 yards +, across a ditch, and through med. cover....... She is not collar conditioned.
Looking forward to training today regards,

Abby
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ga Woodrow said:
When you read the opening sentance of the post she does not say my dog, but a dog I was training. I did not infer anything, I just asked a question 2tall.
Client: Dad and Mom
Fee: house to live in, food to eat. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Training went well last night, kept marking fun with the bumper boy firing from my side. She did a lot better, not slow and.....yea. More the side of her I like :D
The bad side of the night was that I managed to lose my bumper launcher dummy that was in the best condition when I threw it in a patch of med high cover. :roll: Things got worse when I threw a regular bumper and lost that too :roll: :roll:
But all in all, it was a great training session.
 
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