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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dog: 13 week old black lab male.

How do you give your dogs discipline? A "stern no" seems laughable to my dog. We have been doing the whole positive reinforcement thing since day one and something needs to change. I understand he is a young puppy but I don't want him to turn out to be a menace either. He listens pretty well on everything else, I am just having a hard time gauging how much discipline to give at this young age. I'm not going to beat him, but if he bites me in the face one more time (happened twice so far) he might get smacked :-x

To keep him from chewing on everything in sight we have watched him like a hawk and would give him a toy and this seems to work.

In the last couple of weeks while he is in his cage he barks and barks and barks. Tried telling him no...doesnt work. Tried leaving him in there and he eventually stops barking (after 20 minutes), so we would go in and give him a treat and praise and remove him from the crate...still barks. Tried the whole spray bottle thing...he barks even more. Tried change in a can a couple of times....barks even more.

Play biting: Tried rolling his lip over his teeth with a stern no..barks more then bites again. Tried saying "ouch" and walking away...still happens. tried smacking his nose...still happens.

Blankets: He hates them. If we have one on while laying on the couch or something he will bark at you and then pull it off.

The little guy gets more than enough attention and exercise so I highly doubt that is the problem.

I'm just trying to nip this problem in the butt before he is 70 pounds and out of control.
 

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Play biting- Grab him by the scruff of the neck and force his head to the floor while admonishing him. Hold him down for a good 15 sec. When you let go turn your back on him and act as if it never happened. (This has to happen ever time he does it NO EXCEPTIONS)

Barking- Sneak up behind the crate with a wiffle ball bat(or soemthing that will make a good noise) while he is barking and swat it (you need the eliment of suprise)

The good news is that he is learning the rules and these are the types of behavior are things the vast majority grow out of.

Bert
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
He is a very smart dog. I taught him his name and here in the first two days I had him and he has responded to both every time, ever since. But I have said the word no to him 50000 times and he doesn't get it. The joys of a puppy...haha
 

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Obviously the normal puppy discipline of the no bite/lip pinch isn't working so it's time for sterner measures....bite him back! I don't do the alpha roll thing, but I'm a big fan of the scruff shake. Grab him by the scruff and lift him off the ground (if he's too big, lift his front legs off the ground) give him a few good shakes, and scream at him in your meanest growliest voice until he's licking his lips, and yes I've bitten them during the process, especially if I have an uppity pup that comes back snapping after disciplining it. I too use mostly positive reinforcement when they're babies but, there are certain come to Jesus infractions and biting a human is one of them.
 

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Julie,could you post a video of all that.........!
 

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Not one to give advice, but I do have a question: What is the pup's day to day life like? Is he on a schedule that he can count on? Is he getting tons of exercise? Long walks, exploring? Knowing that when he sees you something fun is going to happen. A tired pup is a happy pup.

M
 

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For me, I'll give a physical correction to pups for social stuff like you're describing but do pretty much all positive reinforcement in training (OB, retrieving).
 

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WHen the lip curl did not make my pup start biting, i started using bitter spray to make it stop when they no longer worked I went to hot sauce. She never bit me again.
 

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WHen the lip curl did not make my pup start biting, i started using bitter spray to make it stop when they no longer worked I went to hot sauce. She never bit me again.
How did you use the hot sauce and what kind did you use. As for the crate my puppy was the same way and I just tried to make the crate more enjoyable for her by giving her treats when I put her in and after I closed the door I give her another one. This is also helping with the kennel command.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Day to day life is basically play everyday. Two days of play and exploring in the local forest preserve by my house and then the next day he goes to my aunts if my wife is working and plays all day with her three dogs.
 

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Day to day life is basically play everyday. Two days of play and exploring in the local forest preserve by my house and then the next day he goes to my aunts if my wife is working and plays all day with her three dogs.
I'm no expert, so somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe he thinks he's going to play with you the same way he plays with your aunt's dogs. Maybe that could be part of the problem...thoughts?
 

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I agree with the scruff of the neck takedown and showing him that YOU are the alpha male. Good luck to you, and enjoy the ride!
 

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I agree that letting a young pup "play all day" with adult dogs is NOT a good idea. He is learning his bad play manners from the other dogs.

I worry too much about accidental injuries when pups play unsupervised with adult dogs, so I never leave pups loose with adults.

Meredith
 

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Well, he may be "only" 13 weeks old, but "the honeymoon is over" seems like the correct phrase. Julie's comments are appropriate.

Red flags:

1) A "stern no" seems laughable to my dog. I have said the word no to him 50,000 times and he doesn't get it.
2) if he bites me in the face one more time (happened twice so far) he might get smacked
3) In the last couple of weeks while he is in his cage he barks and barks and barks.
4) The little guy gets more than enough attention and exercise so I highly doubt that is the problem.
Number four is the key to solving this problem. He's not getting enough of the correct attention. For example, "no" means nothing because it has become nagging. He's biting and and barking. One of the most difficult aspects of training is the dog accepting the fact that it is "not the dog/pup". Don't ask me how long it took me to come to grips with that.

This may seem blunt, but why is your face anywhere near his mouth?

He's doing what you have allowed and I'm sure that's related to why you posted this thread. How to take charge is sometimes a difficult proposition. A different person has to show up sporting new routines with solid expectations and fair rules. Forget about the word "no" because the window of opportunity for making "no" meaningful has past.....for now.

It's time for the pup to be deprogrammed. He's young, but I'd immediately and carefully condition him to a bark collar. Protesting and anxiety must be defused and barking will continue to be a hindrance to change.

Every single time he comes out of the crate have him sit. He will need to be leash conditioned and learn how to "give neck" (which basically means not stuggle with it because he can't win). When you don't intend to use a leash, have him wear a short tether (tab). He can't go anywhere without a short poly tab on him. This will assist you because he'll be "wearing a handle" for quick control.

As soon as he is leash broke (conditioned sounds more PC), I'd move directly and carefull to a light, small linked pinch collar to establish control. Do this (the pinch collar thing) only after learning the "how and why" plus what not to do with one.

You need to become calm and consistently persistent while being fun at the same time. This may be a tall order, but the pup's development depends on you finding the right balance in his daily routine to restore control.

You'll have to teach him what you expect while extinguishing all the bad habits he's developed. This is old but true.....he's doing what you have allowed. Right now he's not listening. Get his attention!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I agree that letting a young pup "play all day" with adult dogs is NOT a good idea. He is learning his bad play manners from the other dogs.

I worry too much about accidental injuries when pups play unsupervised with adult dogs, so I never leave pups loose with adults.

Meredith

Not sure where you got the idea that he plays with "adult dogs unsupervised.."

They are always supervised, and all puppies..

*She does keep them separated at times throughout the day too.
 

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I used the hot sauce like the bitter stuff I just lightly coated my hand in it when we were going to be working on not biting. My dog loved to eat the bitter apple,bitter yuck,Yuck super formula she loved it. First taste of Tobasco type sauce she nipped one time and never again. She also takes treats the nicest of any dog i have every had. And mind you this was after nothing else worked for months.

This dog also does not even flinch with the TT collar on any setting. She also did not care when she ripped her ribcage open to the bone on a barbwire fence, broken paw never winced,nail through the foot no problem. I think she lacks pain receptors everywhere except the taste buds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
1.) He's not getting enough of the correct attention. For example, "no" means nothing because it has become nagging. He's biting and and barking.

2.)This may seem blunt, but why is your face anywhere near his mouth?

3.)He's doing what you have allowed and I'm sure that's related to why you posted this thread. How to take charge is sometimes a difficult proposition. A different person has to show up sporting new routines with solid expectations and fair rules. Forget about the word "no" because the window of opportunity for making "no" meaningful has past.....for now.


4.) Every single time he comes out of the crate have him sit.
1.) Can you elaborate on "correct attention" ???

2.) I was laying on the couch both times...

3.) I am unsure of what I have "allowed" to go on.. I guess I thought a stern no and the other things I listed were considered discipline, but I guess that is why I made this thread.


Thank you for the post but it seems you only told me what I have done wrong but never gave any answers to fix the problems besides a bark collar, a pinch collar, and leash conditioning...
 

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1.)


Thank you for the post but it seems you only told me what I have done wrong but never gave any answers to fix the problems besides a bark collar, a pinch collar, and leash conditioning...
That may be but don't you think you should scrap what doesn't work?

For most of the issues you mentioned (all of which are very common) the largest impedament to improvement is a lack of consistancy. If the correction doesn't happen EVERY TIME NO EXCEPTIONS the dog will continue to test the boundries.

Bert
 

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Knowing that this is a forum for owners to understand differant ideas on how to train our dogs, this is how I learned.
1) I do not yell at my dogs unless they are at a distance. It will cause problems in the furture. When I yell at them that close, the sound is to high and broken up.
2) The biteing has to go. Dogs are a pack animale and at some point they will try to move to the top of the order and biteing , necking and takeing each other to the ground are some of the thing that they do to establish a order to the pack.
What I found out is, when they go to bite, I put them on there back as sone as possable, hold there nose and say in a direct manor NO!. Keep them on the ground ( they will roll on to there side thats ok) untile they no longer stuggle and rub there belley. When there calm and still and you can remove your hands and your standing. You say OK and tap them on there backside untile they come to there feet. Then tell them sit. and give the praise. Then release them with the que OK.
3) This may sound funny, but It might give you some understanding on how dog think. Go to a dog park ( without your dog) and just watch how the dogs play and how they use there nose and body to talk to each other.
Hope This Helps
Sorry no time for Spell check
Keith Hacker
 

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Biting from my pup met with a smack from a fly swatter or my hand b/c simple no was never enough to him. I soon learned he thought it was funny to bite at you and I am not sure why. I clamped down because I was concerned about him biting others.

I never let him play with the older dogs. One reason is pups are not nice players when they start to develop and when their puppy teeth are still in they are sharp.

Barking I don't tolerate. Zero tolerance! To me if you respond to the barking you are saying okay bark b/c I will come and stop you by taking you out of the crate or whatever the action is. Introduce a bark collar so no future problems. Start saying "no noise" when he does bark and be consistent.
Puppies need firm guidence in a rewarding, fair, understanding enviroment!
Good Luck!
 
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