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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK... I'm confused. At a HT recently, a friend said that a dog who lines the blind(s) has not demonstrated ability to be handled (guess this comes under the heading of trainability/biddability?), and that could hurt the dog's score.

If a dog theoretically stepped on each mark, lined the blinds... wouldn't that dog be batting a thousand?
 

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Whoever told you that was wrong. Lining the blind is the ultimate control. My information comes from the HRC Judges/Handler seminar. I don't know where your friend got his.
 

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They were just jealous. ;) I've heard that comment too. Crazy... I doubt a dog is going to line all of their tests, each series. If they can't handle, it'll show at some point, right?
 

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I think lining a blind is great. But it's as much luck as control.

Many people think they lined the blind when they should have used two or three whistles.
 

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I think lining a blind is great. But it's as much luck as control.
If it is so much luck then why do some dogs do it a lot more than others? (a lot more than mine!)

Many people think they lined the blind when they should have used two or three whistles.
Agreed, but the judges and gallery know the difference.
 

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I think lining a blind is great. But it's as much luck as control.

Many people think they lined the blind when they should have used two or three whistles.
If the dog negotiated all the factors that the judges were looking at when they designed the blind then lineing the blind is absolutely a better score. If the dog skirts the factors and ends up downwind which allows him to come up with the bird,not so much.

Bert
 

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"You lined the blind but your dog never showed it could handle." Old tired judges' joke but incredibly some folks think it's true. A true lined blind is as good as it gets. Why? Dog comes to the mat. Handler gives a direction. Dog takes that and burns a straight line to the bird. Perfect. End of story.
There are inumerable other paths to the bird. But a true line from the original cast can't be beat.
 

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OK... I'm confused. At a HT recently, a friend said that a dog who lines the blind(s) has not demonstrated ability to be handled (guess this comes under the heading of trainability/biddability?), and that could hurt the dog's score.

If a dog theoretically stepped on each mark, lined the blinds... wouldn't that dog be batting a thousand?
Thousand no, 10s yes. Ever seen a poorly trained dog line a blind with any factors? Rarely is lining a blind luck.
 

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Rarely is lining a blind luck.
Amen to that! Lining isn't a natural function, particularly on routes involving serious factors. If your dog lined the blind, he took handle #1 perfectly! That's why he didn't need handle #2.:D

Evan
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The fella that told me this swears that this is what a judge told him when his dog got dropped. I'm assuming it was more than just the blind... but lining the blind didn't save him. I'm reading into the comment a lot... but he believes that lining the blind hurt his score rather than helped him.
 

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The fella that told me this swears that this is what a judge told him when his dog got dropped. I'm assuming it was more than just the blind... but lining the blind didn't save him. I'm reading into the comment a lot... but he believes that lining the blind hurt his score rather than helped him.
There's lining the blind and there's "woohoo he dun lined the blind!"
Big difference. Many new handlers are unable to see it.
 

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The fella that told me this swears that this is what a judge told him when his dog got dropped. I'm assuming it was more than just the blind... but lining the blind didn't save him. I'm reading into the comment a lot... but he believes that lining the blind hurt his score rather than helped him.
IF that's true, and I doubt it is, shame on the judge. As Anne said, there is a water and land blind in master and senior, at some point, if the marks and blinds are set up with some thought, the handler is going to have to blow the whistle and the dog is going to have to take another cast or two. I've seen dogs line A blind but don't think I've ever seen one line the land and water blind in both in the same test.
 

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Amen to that! Lining isn't a natural function, .:DEvan


Usually, but not always true. I have a female that overall naturally holds a nice line in spite of the factors. Doesnt always happen but I believe her to be an above average natural linning dog. Bred her to Shaq and one of her puppies I am working with is showing the same ability at 7 months.
 

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So then a back cast from heel would be considered a handle? I saw the same thing the OP mentioned dog stepped on all three marks and lined the blind to within 2' of the bird and was never called back for the water.
The judge told him he showed nothing on how the dog handled. The next day he did a 2 whistle for the blind toot-back toot- back and was called back for water series. The dog stilled lined within a couple feet of the blind.
 

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The fella that told me this swears that this is what a judge told him when his dog got dropped. I'm assuming it was more than just the blind... but lining the blind didn't save him. I'm reading into the comment a lot... but he believes that lining the blind hurt his score rather than helped him.
Why do I want to bet he was talking about the senior water blind at NorCal GRC's Sunday test? Admittedly it was a fairly difficult blind by senior standards, but the number of handlers that failed to challenge the blind was mind boggling, and reflected in the number of ribbons handed out. The blind was a moderate diagonal water entry after about 40 yds of land with virtually no cover. A small island obstacle was just to the right of the true line where you might lose the dog behind it at the back side. The water was open running water from the island to the curved shoreline with minimal obstructions. Straight line from line to blind had the dog picking up the bird from the waters edge after going through the fat part of the water. Total distance of approx 75-80 yds. It was amazing how many handlers allowed their dog to run the bank or along the shoreline rather than requiring them to get into the fat part of the water. And then thought they had run a good blind. Needless to say, there were several disappointed handlers at the ribbon ceremony.

T. Mac
 

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The fella that told me this swears that this is what a judge told him when his dog got dropped. I'm assuming it was more than just the blind... but lining the blind didn't save him. I'm reading into the comment a lot... but he believes that lining the blind hurt his score rather than helped him.
Was his name Fred and was he from Vegas?
 

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So then a back cast from heel would be considered a handle?
Yes. Most folks call that one the initial cast.

[/QUOTE]I saw the same thing the OP mentioned dog stepped on all three marks and lined the blind to within 2' of the bird and was never called back for the water.
The judge told him he showed nothing on how the dog handled. The next day he did a 2 whistle for the blind toot-back toot- back and was called back for water series. The dog stilled lined within a couple feet of the blind.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't there and neither was Paul Harvey (can't get the rest of the story), but that seems a little silly that dog 1 was not called back (provided dog 1 challenged the blind and navigated the "factors" on blind 1)
 

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I lined a water blind a few weeks ago and I heard one of the judges behind me say "now your just showing off". Without even turning around I said "luck". She is a very good blind running dog and the truth was I sent her a little fat because everyone was going off to the right and getting in a little trouble but instead of taking my "fat" line she took a perfect line right to the bird. Luck
 

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So then a back cast from heel would be considered a handle? I saw the same thing the OP mentioned dog stepped on all three marks and lined the blind to within 2' of the bird and was never called back for the water.
The judge told him he showed nothing on how the dog handled. The next day he did a 2 whistle for the blind toot-back toot- back and was called back for water series. The dog stilled lined within a couple feet of the blind.
Unless there was an obviouse factor that was cheated THAT is piss poor judgeing, and even if there was a cheat the dog should be back.

Bert
 
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