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Discussion Starter #1
I've recently started to do e-collar conditioning with my male lab in a class that is held here. There is another unfixed male in the lab, same age, build everything. Every time we go to the class either my male or the other male will break and go after each other and start a scuffle. This is extremely frustrating for future events and duck seasons. I have socialized my lab, but for some reason every time we go to this class (even when he was not shocked) this is what happens. It has become quite an embarrassment. He has been socialized with many different dogs his entire life and even lives with an older female. We are going back to the basics (obedience) and that only. What else can I do to break this habit. I don't know what has gotten into him and it is killing me physically and mentally.
 

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I've recently started to do e-collar conditioning with my male lab in a class that is held here. There is another unfixed male in the lab, same age, build everything. Every time we go to the class either my male or the other male will break and go after each other and start a scuffle. This is extremely frustrating for future events and duck seasons. I have socialized my lab, but for some reason every time we go to this class (even when he was not shocked) this is what happens. It has become quite an embarrassment. He has been socialized with many different dogs his entire life and even lives with an older female. We are going back to the basics (obedience) and that only. What else can I do to break this habit. I don't know what has gotten into him and it is killing me physically and mentally.
I have read your thread several times.
You need to be more specific...you are all over the place. Breath.... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm so frustrated as you can see! :confused:. Lets try this again lol. I have an intact one year old clm. He has done obedience, hold work, retrieves, and just recently started an e-collar class that a retriever group is holding up here in Alaska. I made sure that my male starting after he got his shots was introduced and socialized with a wide variety of dogs. He's never had any issues except for one dog when he was about 8 months old. This dog was extremely aggressive, but had a muzzle on. After this incident my dog did not interact with this dog and instead I socialized him with others. Now at a year old in this training class he has become something else. First day of class he retrieved a bumper and went past this other intact clm. That clm went into a flight mode and hence a fight broke out. Grabbed the pups broke their view and put them in a down position. Now this week we were on long lines. I was no where near the other lab, which has gotten in with other fights with other males in the class. As we walked into the field my male saw him, bolted, ripped the line from my hand and then a fight broke out again. He was not shocked during this time. I've decided to remove him from the training class and go back and focus on obedience and obedience only. No bumpers, no ecollar, just a choke collar, short leash and a whistle. I'm not sure what else to do with this habit or how it even started. He lives with another dog and we do play dates with other males and females. He does have a high drive, which is more than likely a huge issue as well, which we are working on. It is just very odd to see coming from my male that is extremely submissive to becoming dominant in a training class. I just need help and a big tall drink!
 

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You’re setting a lot of red flags…
What did the owner of the aggressive dog do or not do?

What did the instructor of the class do or say?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You’re setting a lot of red flags…
What did the owner of the aggressive dog do or not do?

What did the instructor of the class do or say?

The other owner did not say anything. The trainers had to tell him to have his male go in a down position and break the gaze of my dog (first time) Second time (today) the owner only grabbed his lab. Today when the dogs were off leash (I left mine in the car) the other lab had his hackles raised. It seemed to me like he was very uneasy and that lab and another dog growled to each other, but last week they did fight. The other owner kind of laughed it off and said teenagers, but it's not a teenager thing to do as there are no females in heat in the group!
The instructors did really nothing except ask me if I have socialized my pup before (yes all his life) and told me I had a dominant dog or a dog that is trying to figure out where his status is. My male has been put in his place. He knows we are in charge. I don't know if a lot has to do with the fact my husband is gone and he is going into a "mom i'm going to protect you from the aggressive dog" or what, but the behavior on my end is not acceptable.
 

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In all honesty...quit that class and talk to people who know dogs and ask them for recommendations.
Sounds like a bad situation all together what you went through from what you are saying. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
In all honesty...quit that class and talk to people who know dogs and ask them for recommendations.
Sounds like a bad situation all together what you went through from what you are saying. :)
It was a total embarrassment! I felt like I had steered my dog down the wrong path or something like that. He's never acted this way and I was being put in the blame for having an "aggressive" dog. I was blaming myself for him going after the same male today. Last week our friend that knows dogs and dog training went with us and even said that the other male had issues and probably was not properly socialized before. I have quit the class though. We're going to train on our own and my friend that has trained all his dogs including the dam and sire of my pup is taking my pup for a month.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You’re setting a lot of red flags…
What did the owner of the aggressive dog do or not do?

What did the instructor of the class do or say?

What kind of red flags did you notice? From what I said is it more my male or the other? I'm trying to just figure out what to do.
 

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What kind of red flags did you notice? From what I said is it more my male or the other? I'm trying to just figure out what to do.
You need to train with someone who knows how to read dogs' body language.

I also get the feeling that both you and the other owner may be sending inappropriate messages to your dogs. Unintentional of course. I have been guilty of it myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You need to train with someone who knows how to read dogs' body language.

I also get the feeling that both you and the other owner may be sending inappropriate messages to your dogs. Unintentional of course. I have been guilty of it myself.
I am taking him out and only training with someone I know knows what they are doing now. I very well could be sending my dog inappropriate messages, but I'm not sure as to what as I don't change my demeanor or feel anxious. But I don't have someone watching me so I can't for sure know. I do know that after today I have had enough. Last weekend my dog was used as an example of what happens when you shock a dog next to another dog. The trainer did it intentional next to the other lab we've had problems with. This could be the stem of it. I'm just very frustrated in myself and my dog.
 

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I am taking him out and only training with someone I know knows what they are doing now. I very well could be sending my dog inappropriate messages, but I'm not sure as to what as I don't change my demeanor or feel anxious. But I don't have someone watching me so I can't for sure know. I do know that after today I have had enough. Last weekend my dog was used as an example of what happens when you shock a dog next to another dog. The trainer did it intentional next to the other lab we've had problems with. This could be the stem of it. I'm just very frustrated in myself and my dog.
That is a no-no in my book. The dog develops a superstitious behavior due to the shock near a dog. He thinks the dog caused the burn.
 

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Hi,
I am glad that you are not in that class anymore and are having a knowledgeable trainer help you one on one.
You made a statement that contradicts itself about your feeling that the dog knows his status in your house."Maybe since my Husband is gone the dog thinks he needs to protect me from the aggressive dog". That tells me that you are definitely sending mixed signals without even knowing it. Dog should know that you are going to protect him, not the other way around.

Good Luck, I hear your frustration. Glad that you are tackling this now. It will not be easy, but you will learn so much about you and your dog. Sorry about all the bad situations that have happened so far, put those behind you and move on. Both you and the dog can change.
Colleen
 

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Hi,
I am glad that you are not in that class anymore and are having a knowledgeable trainer help you one on one.
You made a statement that contradicts itself about your feeling that the dog knows his status in your house."Maybe since my Husband is gone the dog thinks he needs to protect me from the aggressive dog". That tells me that you are definitely sending mixed signals without even knowing it. Dog should know that you are going to protect him, not the other way around.

Good Luck, I hear your frustration. Glad that you are tackling this now. It will not be easy, but you will learn so much about you and your dog. Sorry about all the bad situations that have happened so far, put those behind you and move on. Both you and the dog can change.
Colleen
I picked up on this remark too. Without taking into consideration anything else you have said, it made me wonder if the dog had learned his place is #2, right behind you husband, and in your husband's absence, he feels his job is to now move into the leadership position.

Consider that YOU may need to exert YOUR position as leader and that YOU are in charge of these "threatening" situations. No one else can do that for you.

JS
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I picked up on this remark too. Without taking into consideration anything else you have said, it made me wonder if the dog had learned his place is #2, right behind you husband, and in your husband's absence, he feels his job is to now move into the leadership position.

Consider that YOU may need to exert YOUR position as leader and that YOU are in charge of these "threatening" situations. No one else can do that for you.

JS

I see see what you guys are saying. I was definitely just trying to throw things it when I said that. He does really know that he's not #2. I made the line clear as he was a pup and still do to this day. That was just my frustration in what the heck happened!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi,
I am glad that you are not in that class anymore and are having a knowledgeable trainer help you one on one.
You made a statement that contradicts itself about your feeling that the dog knows his status in your house."Maybe since my Husband is gone the dog thinks he needs to protect me from the aggressive dog". That tells me that you are definitely sending mixed signals without even knowing it. Dog should know that you are going to protect him, not the other way around.

Good Luck, I hear your frustration. Glad that you are tackling this now. It will not be easy, but you will learn so much about you and your dog. Sorry about all the bad situations that have happened so far, put those behind you and move on. Both you and the dog can change.
Colleen


Hi Colleen,

I definitely was throwing things out when I said that about my husband beings be. Just trying to see what could have caused it. I've put my dog in his place since day one so I really don't think it is that. I had forgotten that the first class and fight my husband was actually there. I'm the one who trains him majority of the time and now thinking about it he really does mind me. I definitely don't think it's going to be a huge issue. The more and more I think of it I think it was overall just a bad situation I was putting my dog in. But we are back to basics regardless. And play dates.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
That is a no-no in my book. The dog develops a superstitious behavior due to the shock near a dog. He thinks the dog caused the burn.


Exactly! So all this has been building. Of course he isn't going to like the dog. He thinks it hurt him. The trainer wanted me to burn my dog on a 3 (he responds super well on a 1) if he went to bolt within his first few steps. But I see that causing even more problems down the road.
 

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That is a no-no in my book. The dog develops a superstitious behavior due to the shock near a dog. He thinks the dog caused the burn.
Seems to be the obvious answer. I have done some stuff as a first-time trainer that with a little experience and hindsight looks pretty stupid, but this one may take the cake. Just a bad idea with really no redeeming qualities.
 
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