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To whomever

Access to Fort Lewis is covered by government regulation:

UNAUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES FOR FORT LEWIS MANEUVER AREA

7) Commercial activities conducted for profit ---------- including dog training for reimbursement. [end of Quote]

I am only asking that the government enforce their own regulations!!!
Marvin S[/quote[

pyzon said:
Marvin keep it up and the fort will toss all of us out
NO one is in your way out there there is thousands of acres out there to train on. Cant you just get along
The way to ensure that does not become an issue is for the unauthorized users to stay off the Fort. The unauthorized users would be at fault if this became an issue.

There are not that many satisfactory training areas on the fort for Field Trial level work. With the number of Amateur trainers in the local area those satisfactory training areas fill up fast.

Marvin S
 

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itilii said:
To whomever

Access to Fort Lewis is covered by government regulation:

UNAUTHORIZED ACTIVITIES FOR FORT LEWIS MANEUVER AREA

7) Commercial activities conducted for profit ---------- including dog training for reimbursement. [end of Quote]

I am only asking that the government enforce their own regulations!!!
Marvin S[/quote[

pyzon said:
Marvin keep it up and the fort will toss all of us out
NO one is in your way out there there is thousands of acres out there to train on. Cant you just get along
The way to ensure that does not become an issue is for the unauthorized users to stay off the Fort. The unauthorized users would be at fault if this became an issue.

There are not that many satisfactory training areas on the fort for Field Trial level work. With the number of Amateur trainers in the local area those satisfactory training areas fill up fast.

Marvin S
As an ex Range Control Officer of many years, I can tell you this one thing for sure .... you call attention to one group (dog training for reimbursement, i.e. Pro trainer) you call unwarranted and unwanted attention to the entire group resulting in permanent exclusion from activities on the base. In todays environment, I can assure you it won't take much to make that happen.

don't know you from Adam Mr. Sundstrom, but if your ego in calling in the 'dogs' because you were mad someone got up earlier that you to train got my privileges revoked we would have some 'wall to wall counseling issues' :wink:
 

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Marvin,

Gawd!! See you are still good at pissing in your own nest. lol. As you remember I used to train out at the FT. when I lived there and as I recall there was plenty of room for everyone to train. What did Jim do to piss you off so bad???? I think you had best let it be and not pursue this or the local folks will not think any more kindly of you than they already do. Specially if everyone gets kicked off the Fort.

LT
 
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Marv, you appeared to have no problem training "with Jim Gonia on the fort" when you trained with Jim Gonia! What's up now????

If you think the pros are imposing on your training areas, what about this incident? As I recall a few weeks ago,you showed up at the north cove and so rudely proceeded to take your dogs and bumpers out to train without even asking me if I was done with the water. Good thing I was done, huh!
And you think the pros are imposing...

You ARE NOT HELPING anything as you claim with any of your approaches.

Kim Johnston

Unhappy people make more unhappy people......
 

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I think I'll download that from audible.com and put it on my iPod. :D
 

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Ditto what Kim said

Paul
Don't do that so late in the day I have to drive home and try to train dogs tonight. But I can't flipping stop laughing

Marvin
Keep it up on writing letters to the fort like the last one and all of us will me gone you including. We need to policy ourselves we do not need them in our business. I'm still not to sure why you did it to start with there 89,000 flipping acres can't you find a place to train away from folks.
 

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AQUADOG said:
Ditto what Kim said

Paul
Don't do that so late in the day I have to drive home and try to train dogs tonight. But I can't flipping stop laughing

Marvin
Keep it up on writing letters to the fort like the last one and all of us will me gone you including. We need to policy ourselves we do not need them in our business. I'm still not to sure why you did it to start with there 89,000 flipping acres can't you find a place to train away from folks.

Geez, 89000 acres? I can't even imagine having grounds like that. I also can't imagine that someone who has spent a lifetime in this sport would be so selfish as to jeopardize the entire grounds over someone being in the spot he wanted to be that day. In my family we'd take someone like that bear hunting in the woods and save time by letting the bait walk in on his own. I'd sure hate to be on the hall of fame committee for him. Here you have a guy with a lifetime of experience in the sport, with no doubt so much to share, passed it on to his kids and had some measure of successful dogs in his life yet chooses to do nothing positive with it. Course he might get in because he's done something no other hall of famer has done. He's managed to insult every judge and handler across the entire nation by putting up a website that inaccurately reflects their abilities as a handler and judge in a negative way while single handedly losing 90000 acres of public training grounds for an entire region of FT and HT retriever trainers. Move over Rex Carr we need to hang a new picture...

/Paul
 

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Lonny Taylor said:
Marvin,

Gawd!! See you are still good at pissing in your own nest. lol. As you remember I used to train out at the FT. when I lived there and as I recall there was plenty of room for everyone to train. What did Jim do to piss you off so bad???? I think you had best let it be and not pursue this or the local folks will not think any more kindly of you than they already do. Specially if everyone gets kicked off the Fort.

LT
Lonny

Long time absent, but it's nice to hear you have the same high opinion of me that your mentor has!! Other than the fact that you would recognize me on the street, you have no idea who I am or what I stand for, which puts you in the same company as about 85% of the posters on this subject. That said, there are about 15% of the posters that have the intellectual capacity to see the potential in what is being done even though they do not know me.

Things change when you leave an area. The fort does not look like it did when you were here. It is overgrown with Scotch Broom & many of the other properties we were able to train on are accessible to only a select few, if at all. This includes the property of one of the principals in this discussion. A group of Amateurs, spearheaded by Ken Lee have made some of the areas on the fort more usable, including the North Cove. Ken & his group also do the bulk of the yearly maintenance on those areas.

The principals in this issue know all the facts. If one of them chooses to involve others that is their right. They can also put their version of spin on the issue. If they do not want to risk everyone not being able to train on the fort they need to follow the posted regulations, IT'S THAT SIMPLE!!!

As for e-mails & or letters I have never written one to any authority regarding the subject of unauthorized use. Whoever says that has happened is a Liar!!!

As for making friends, if I have to censor my comments or limit my actions to follow a supposed politically dog correct position, you can forget that. No one is exempt, in my world there are only those icons who have earned the status. I wouldn't still be doing the sport but happen to really enjoy the process of training a successful dog. As I have said before, the professional guidance I received in the past was invaluable, & for that I am grateful. I do what I am doing so those who follow in the sport can enjoy the outcome of my efforts, which would be a level playing field irregardless of one's circumstance.

Marvin S
 

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Marvin,

I am glad that you have not written any authority and I hope that you wouldnt drop a dime. I do hope that this would be taken care of amongst the folks that train there. I dont understand why you put this on this thread anyway. I was being very amused reading about your judges rating systems until I saw your blurb about the Fort and the threads that followed.

As far as knowing you marvin, I do know you quite well. I have been laughing reading the inputs about what you have stirred up. You have always been very opinionated and people have to take it or leave it.

If the fort has problems then it sounds like what Ken Lee is doing is good. I would hope that you would join in and support his efforts and maybe Jim and alot of others would help. The club I helped form back here in kansas occasionally has a work day on grounds that we train on and run our events. Draggin up a regulation that has never been enforced is not the answer. If you have a problem with Jim I would hope that you would confront him personally not via the internet or just mouthing off to folks.

Hope your dogs are doing as well as your internet adventure. :lol:

LT
 

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itilii said:
Lonny Taylor said:
Marvin,

Gawd!! See you are still good at pissing in your own nest. lol. As you remember I used to train out at the FT. when I lived there and as I recall there was plenty of room for everyone to train. What did Jim do to piss you off so bad???? I think you had best let it be and not pursue this or the local folks will not think any more kindly of you than they already do. Specially if everyone gets kicked off the Fort.

, spearheaded by Ken Lee have made some of the areas on the fort more usable, including the North Cove. Ken & his group also do the bulk of the yearly maintenance on those areas.

]I cut and clean with ken and i dont recall YOU pitching in to help you seem to just use what we clear and as far as not enough areas to train OPEN YOUR EYES

just another unqualified judge
 
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one day while i was training with the entire tacoma training group, including navy capt ken lee and army officer gordon flowers, long time trialer and club member bob crabb and others, we were interrupted by a group of local police,mp's and range control officers. our activities were brought to their attention by the number of vehicles in our group. since there were several vehicles in the group they asked if we were professional dog trainers. we all laughed, said stick around and watch our dogs, that should answer their questions! they checked every vehicle for a valid pass and found no problems.
i then asked them if they could tell me why the sudden check on people on the fort, was it routine or spearheaded by someone or a group of someones. did we, as dog trainers in general upset someone?? the others followed in as well with their questions about this.
i was asked by one of the range control officers if i would like to see emails sent to them which prompted this action. of course, and i was given a printout of emails to read right there on the fort. this series of emails specifically name several pros in the area, including jim gonia and mark madore and the one allegation that stood out was that they were holding seminars on the fort for profit. I told the officers this was untrue, if it were true i would be at these seminars learning! everyone agreed, laughed and then gave a detailed description of what we, as well as the pros were actually doing on the fort. we told them that in the case of the pro, the clients pay the pro a monthly fee to train their dog. this may include at home, on the road, and any where else they train. the officers seem to think this was ok and asked us why this guy was raising such a stink, does he have a grudge against someone????

marvin says he did not write these emails. marv, ask ken lee and bob crabb who's name was in these emails.

i agree that the fort is slowly becoming limited in usable training areas, and i hate it when i cant use an area because someone is already there, someone who owns a personal area to train when this is all i have.
but this has been going on this way for 40 years. why, when we are already having a difficult time obtaining grounds for our trials due to military training for iraq, would you stir up such a mess that will only have more negative affects on our club and the amateur dog trainers in the area????
when the fort kicks us out, who cares why?????? all we know is that you started this and nobody in this area can see a justifiable reason.
that so called 15% that understands your motives, they dont matter here because they dont train here.

kim johnston
 
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if marv denies emailing compaints to the fort, does he also deny having anything to do with prompting the actions of area access regarding the pro's training at the fort or any other such activities??
 

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suprdogs said:
one day while i was training with the entire tacoma training group, including navy capt ken lee and army officer gordon flowers, long time trialer and club member bob crabb and others, we were interrupted by a group of local police,mp's and range control officers. our activities were brought to their attention by the number of vehicles in our group. since there were several vehicles in the group they asked if we were professional dog trainers. we all laughed, said stick around and watch our dogs, that should answer their questions! they checked every vehicle for a valid pass and found no problems.
i then asked them if they could tell me why the sudden check on people on the fort, was it routine or spearheaded by someone or a group of someones. did we, as dog trainers in general upset someone?? the others followed in as well with their questions about this.
i was asked by one of the range control officers if i would like to see emails sent to them which prompted this action. of course, and i was given a printout of emails to read right there on the fort. this series of emails specifically name several pros in the area, including jim gonia and mark madore and the one allegation that stood out was that they were holding seminars on the fort for profit. I told the officers this was untrue, if it were true i would be at these seminars learning! everyone agreed, laughed and then gave a detailed description of what we, as well as the pros were actually doing on the fort. we told them that in the case of the pro, the clients pay the pro a monthly fee to train their dog. this may include at home, on the road, and any where else they train. the officers seem to think this was ok and asked us why this guy was raising such a stink, does he have a grudge against someone????

marvin says he did not write these emails. marv, ask ken lee and bob crabb who's name was in these emails.

i agree that the fort is slowly becoming limited in usable training areas, and i hate it when i cant use an area because someone is already there, someone who owns a personal area to train when this is all i have.
but this has been going on this way for 40 years. why, when we are already having a difficult time obtaining grounds for our trials due to military training for iraq, would you stir up such a mess that will only have more negative affects on our club and the amateur dog trainers in the area????
when the fort kicks us out, who cares why?????? all we know is that you started this and nobody in this area can see a justifiable reason.
that so called 15% that understands your motives, they dont matter here because they dont train here.

kim johnston
Uuuuuuhhhhhh Marv...... You might want to check with /Paul to see if he as some extra ass laying around that you can borrow for a while. Just one ******* opinion, but it would appear that your's just got BADLY mangled.

Nothing like facts and data to clear the air regards

Bubba
 

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suprdogs said:
if marv denies emailing compaints to the fort, does he also deny having anything to do with prompting the actions of area access regarding the pro's training at the fort or any other such activities??
Not being as computer literate as some I have not done e-mail until ftretrieverjudge.net was opened, that has changed somewhat as individuals have e-mailed with concerns which I have tried to answer.

At permit renewals 2 times ago I asked area access why they were allowing non-citizens access to the fort. They asked me what this individual was doing, when I told them they said they had no control over non-citizens being on the fort. That was an MP thing. They also asked if any other individuals who were citizens were doing the same thing & I told them, which may have prompted their actions. Area Access may have initiated the action based on my question, I did not e-mail anyone. If my name was on the e-mail it was not as originator! You should have known that with all your computer literacy!! What I did do is send a letter to one of the principals with my concerns, whether that took or not I can't answer. I also had a conversation with one of the principals.

While this may have gone on for 40+ years is not the issue. The issue is that it is not acceptable regardless of the spin put on it. Additional training groups that should not be there in an already diminishing asset is the issue. When trainers (the non-citizen) exercise their dogs in the middle of your test, people are driving through your test looking for their other training group & tests are set up without regard to others that are training then the answer is - if you shouldn't be there you need to leave.

Remember, Amateurs have a right to be there if they've gone through the proper sequence, those training for reimbursement do not regardless of what sequence they follow!!!!

I'm done with this subject & I'm sure others are getting bored with the back & forths, so let it die!!!

Marvin S
 

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Hey Marv, why do you think they do not give you the respect when you are training??? You are a tool. (as the youngins say) I have run across alot of back-ends such as yourself in many differant fields,and many differant venues, and I have come to the same conclusion about the whole lot. YOU DO NOT MATTER. Keep promoting yourself, and you will sleep well in the p.m.. I am truly sorry for you.
 
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