[ukcpeak]

Is the term "best" appropriate for non-competitive events like the MN? I don't think it is. No matter how high the MNRC raises the standards there could always be dogs that meet that standard and dogs that exceed that standard. It is not possible to determine the best dogs in the field without head to head competition, winners and loosers. If the MNRC is looking for a certain # of qualifiers to prove the worth of their program, then why not just place 1st,2nd, 3rd, 4th, hand out another 5 or 6 jams and call it a Q?

If you want to run something more challenging than a propperly setup and judged master test then why not suck it up and enter a Q? Then if you succeed you will actually have something to pound your chest about.

I don't like the way that the MN tends to steer how some weekend master tests are run. You see the same goofy MN judges trying out some goofy ideas week in and week out. There is nothing wrong with the master standard aside from some inconsistancy in a few regions.

A noncompetitive national title to declare the best of whatever makes about as much sense as a soup samich.

 

[AmiableLabs]

If you want to run something more challenging than a propperly setup and judged master test then why not suck it up and enter a Q? Then if you succeed you will actually have something to pound your chest about.

Amen!

Welcome to our team. :wink:

Unfortunately we are losing right now. :?

 

[john fallon]

They should write there own standards in conjunction with a new AkC MHX, program stake and title.
Hands Off the J/S/MH program it is doing what it was intended to do i.e.
"................ to test the merits of, and evaluate the abilities of Retrievers in the field in order to determine their suitability and ability as hunting companions..."
john

 

[Franco]

If you want to run something more challenging than a propperly setup and judged master test then why not suck it up and enter a Q? Then if you succeed you will actually have something to pound your chest about.

A noncompetitive national title to declare the best of whatever makes about as much sense as a soup samich.

Don't know what a soup samish is, but I somewhat agree with your sentiments. Not sure that getting QAA is something to pound one's chest about, though.

 

[AmiableLabs]

None of the above.

MN should be disbanded and done away with.

Leave HTs with JH, SH, and MH. Anybody who wants more can go FTs.

FTs need the warm bodies.

 

[Uncle Bill]

Is the term "best" appropriate for non-competitive events like the MN? I don't think it is. No matter how high the MNRC raises the standards there could always be dogs that meet that standard and dogs that exceed that standard. It is not possible to determine the best dogs in the field without head to head competition, winners and loosers. If the MNRC is looking for a certain # of qualifiers to prove the worth of their program, then why not just place 1st,2nd, 3rd, 4th, hand out another 5 or 6 jams and call it a Q?

If you want to run something more challenging than a propperly setup and judged master test then why not suck it up and enter a Q? Then if you succeed you will actually have something to pound your chest about.

I don't like the way that the MN tends to steer how some weekend master tests are run. You see the same goofy MN judges trying out some goofy ideas week in and week out. There is nothing wrong with the master standard aside from some inconsistancy in a few regions.

A noncompetitive national title to declare the best of whatever makes about as much sense as a soup samich.

Couldn't agree more, but rather than rechewing my morning rant, read my post on Kristies thread about boycotting MN 2004. It wasn't meant as anything against Kristie personally, just the way I read the entire fiasco.

UB

 

[Vicky Trainor]

Booty wrote:

Not sure that getting QAA is something to pound one's chest about, though.

You've got to be kidding me, right? No, don't answer that question.... "knowing" you, you're probably not kidding.

- To the newbie, a JH title is something to pound one's chest about.
- To the newbie that has gotten caught up in the sport because of the pride he has gotten because of the JH title and has gone on to train, a SH title is something to pound one's chest about.
- To the now not-so-newbie that has continued to train, a MH title is something to pound one's chest about.
- To the feeling his oats about getting the MH title and decide to try his hand & his dog's paws in FTs, a QAA "title" would be something to pound one's chest about!!!!

Just because any of those titles doesn't cause you to pound your chest, don't look down your nose because that once-upon-a-time-newbie is tickled to death & pounding his chest because he and his dog have earned a QAA status.

Vicky
- where's that PMS tag when I need it???
- naw, it isn't PMS, just me opening my big mouth again about what I think

 

[Franco]

You've got to be kidding me, right? No, don't answer that question.... "knowing" you, you're probably not kidding.

I am not belittling earning a QAA! Just said it is nothing to pound one's chest about. It is a wonderful accomplishment, but chest pounding? I guess I like a more even appoach, not too high when things are going well and not too low when they aren't. I don't remember reading anything about a Newbie in the part I commented on.

UB's comments on Kristie's thread was the most insightful piece I've ever read on HT's.

 

[KJB]

Thanks, Vicky. Well said!

If I ever got Boo QAA, title or no, I'd be pounding everybody's chest!

 

[paul young]

i think if you pay someone else to train your dog, with the goal being all-age competition, and the dogs career ends at qaa, it's nothing to be proud of.

but to the 1 0r 2 dog amateur, training their
own dogs, butting heads with the pro-trained dogs, that same ribbon is cause for real celebration. at least for me it is. doesn't mean you have to quit there,either! :wink: -paul

 

[D Beard]

If I ever got Boo QAA, title or no, I'd be pounding everybody's chest!

Same goes here. If I ever enter the FT ring and get a QAA on one of my own dogs, I am traveling to Alabama and pounding on Booty's chest too!!!

Anyone who gets the QAA title needs to do the same this year...watch out Booty you best hide now before all the chest pounding commences!!

:lol:

 

[Franco]

Same goes here. If I ever enter the FT ring and get a QAA on one of my own dogs, I am traveling to Alabama and pounding on Booty's chest too!!!

Derek, if you dog becomes QAA, it would be a cake walk for her. But, if you feel the need to beat on my chest, you'll have to come to New Orleans to do it. I'll even buy the beers. As of this coming Monday, I will be living back in the Big Easy! I hope that everyone that wants one, including me, gets one this year.

 

[D Beard]

moving to the Big Easy is even more reason to come...probably won't be beating on your chest on Bourbon Street, rather be trading some beads and well yea you know! and drinking some free beer and Hurricane's from Pat O'brien's!!!!
You are probably safe as my fiancee wouldn't let me return to Bourbon Steet now but I had a blast the 2 times I went there for Mardi Gras!!!

 

[FOM]

Mr. Booty,

I'm extremely PROUD of my JH, SH, and CD titles! I'm even proud of my CGC certificate. I won't bother you with the HRC/NAHRA titles, either. But for my first attempt at retriever games with a good for nothing couch potato of a lab, I'm EXTREMELY PROUD of my accomplishments...so :splat:

And when I get my first MH title I'll pound on my chest and think of you! And if my little Bullet Boy and I get a few Greenies I'll pound my chest and think of you again. And if I'm lucky enough to train a dog to the QAA level, title or not, I'll probably pound my chest and not mention drink a few beers to boot!

Hell just getting from the last holding blind to the line itself with the Mutt still at heel is sometimes worth pounding my chest over! :lol:


Lainee, Flash Man and Bullet Boy

 

[Andy Carlson]

I got a JAM in the Q in the 1st picnic trial Briezy and I ever ran - I am VERY proud of that little purple ribbon. To us, it was a major accomplishment. I train by myself more than I would like to and it was our 1st time trying a FT event. We ran our 1st licensed Q and did not get called back to the 2nd series but someday we will.

So when she and the youngsters someday become QAA there will be chest pounding and calling out from the highest roof top!!

Andy

 

[MooseGooser]

FOM and Vicky
Thank you for saying that, and I couldnt agree more. HT titles are for some ,very significant accomplishments. The ones my dogs and I have earned have been achieved without having the good fortune of being able to send the dog off for training. I wanted to, believe me, but the rescources wernt there.
I have been at JUNIOR LEVEL tests where dogs were eliminated even though they trained on that exact piece of ground, and by their own admittance, had even seen the marks before!! Let me tell you, I felt like pounding my chest, when at the end of the day, I was told I passed!!
They are also important to some of us because, We see our effort transmitt to the field. Makes the hrs of work worthwhile, when you see your dog be Civil, and not break, even though your Huntin buddys dog who only gets work during the season goes biserk!! Even though its only a Junior Level Title, it does show in some cases.
I am proud of the HT titles I have recieved, because to me they they represent my desire to have a resposible hunting dog.

Gooser

 

[K G]

Amiable Labs wrote:

MN should be disbanded and done away with.

Leave HTs with JH, SH, and MH. Anybody who wants more can go FTs.

FTs need the warm bodies.

Oh....and that will just send them screaming to their phones to ask for premiums to field trials... :roll:

Keith Griffith

 

[Jerry]

It's hard for someone like me who has only run a handfull of HT's to comment or be taken seriously but using an analogy, here goes.

My dog can win 2nd Place in every Open & Amateur all year long, earn a truck load of points, and it will still NOT be qualified to run either National. That Blue Ribbon requirement, in and of itself, keeps entries down.

Every HT dog that scores the minimum, passing but minimum, in X number of test qualifies for the National. That's the problem.

Jerry

 

[AmiableLabs]

Amiable Labs wrote:

FTs need the warm bodies.

Oh....and that will just send them screaming to their phones to ask for premiums to field trials... :roll:

ROF,LOL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hey, I just say it plain, don't I? :lol: :wink: 8)

 

[ukcpeak]

My dog can win 2nd Place in every Open & Amateur all year long, earn a truck load of points, and it will still NOT be qualified to run either National.

Thats right, because second place at a FT is just the 1st looser.

[/quote]Every HT dog that scores the minimum, passing but minimum, in X number of test qualifies for the National. That's the problem.

Jerry[/quote]

HTs are a non-competitive venue. Passing by the skin of your teeth is still passing. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the STANDARD is upheld, so the only problem is trying to make HTs something that they are not...competitive.

No matter what they do with the standards there will always be dogs that pass with flying colors and those that just get by. I don't see any way of changing this without getting away from the HT game.

You don't need a week or two long big to do of a national HT to prove that a dog can perform to a standard. I feel the MNRC is just getting carried away trying to compare itself to something that it is not. Its still just a HT. It dosen't prove anything, FTs will still be the gold standard for determining the best breeding stock.

National retriever events aren't for everyone...I promise, I don't loose any sleep worring about how I am going to beat Lardy and Farmer at the national. :lol: