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Been trying to search for good examples, not sure I have thought of the best search phrase's.

I was looking to see what thoughts/examples that folks have experienced in terms of "Diversion/Memory wipeout" difficulty in a AKC master hunt test?

If you know of previous links I would like to see them. (also please understand I am still trying to learn this stuff)

I realize this is a crazy question in terms of all the possible terrain/factors that are out there, but as an example;

A triple thrown in front of a dog, run two blinds first then pick up the memory birds..

I've been behind the winger at several MH tests, but never saw too many of these at a great difficulty, I think I've seen a double thrown, then the handler had to pick up to blinds and then get the marks.

The reason I ask (aside from boredom), is that in training I can do 4 phase drills, Difinitive casting (off of marks to blinds), Key Relationship drills with poisons, etc.. But what would be considered the most difficult exposure in training that would prepare me to enter a Master test at the extreme.

What is the most difficult thing seen in a MH level test, e.g. "A set of Quads thrown, two poison birds run first, then after picking up the second bird down on the way back a Bulldog is thrown to blow the last two memory marks (see the extreme?)."

Did this question make sense? If not I can delete it! :)
 

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Skim the bird across the water like a skipping stone about 2-3 ft in front of them. Never seen a dog not at least look at one of them ;) Bull Dog or Poison You might have your hands full ;)
 

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We did that at the Old Hatchie test in MS recently by laying a G/U winger down on the ground, it looked great skipping four or five times after hitting the water but a bigger deal for handlers than dogs as not one left the line early.
 

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Diversion bird fliers are interesting
Judge tried that here and not one dog looked twice at it

Most interesting - 3rd series -Had a single mark on a peninsula, no them off and run a blind to the end of the peninsula. On the way out, diversion is shot and tossed into the water. Finish up the blind, then get the diversion, sit on the mat and watch a double. Pick up the 3 marks. Poison bird diversion only got one dog. Fun watching handlers choose the order of the marks if they didn't have a handle left.

Hardest one I ran though was a diversion on way back from the long go bird flyer between 2 marks. It fell on line but in front of heavy cover protecting the right mark. It took out about 1/2 the field. They only threw doubles the last 2 series!
 

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After all we routinely have birds skipping like stones across the water 3 feet in front of the dog during a normal days hunt! And we expect them to remember a bird we shot 10 minutes ago too, instead of just handling to pick it up! Yep, all is a normal days hunt fellas! :confused:
 

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After all we routinely have birds skipping like stones across the water 3 feet in front of the dog during a normal days hunt! And we expect them to remember a bird we shot 10 minutes ago too, instead of just handling to pick it up! Yep, all is a normal days hunt fellas! :confused:

Thats what I was thinking. I thought they were called hunt tests. Maybe those folks are in the wrong game, although I have not heard of skipping birds in a field trial, but I'm kinda new at it...
 

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Diversion bird fliers are interesting
Judge tried that here and not one dog looked twice at it

Most interesting - 3rd series -Had a single mark on a peninsula, no them off and run a blind to the end of the peninsula. On the way out, diversion is shot and tossed into the water. Finish up the blind, then get the diversion, sit on the mat and watch a double. Pick up the 3 marks. Poison bird diversion only got one dog. Fun watching handlers choose the order of the marks if they didn't have a handle left.

Hardest one I ran though was a diversion on way back from the long go bird flyer between 2 marks. It fell on line but in front of heavy cover protecting the right mark. It took out about 1/2 the field. They only threw doubles the last 2 series!
Since you say 3rd series, I presume AKC.

Can judge dictate which bird you pick up after the blind is run? I guess I can see "pick up one" (diversion or mark) before the other two are thrown.
 

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Since you say 3rd series, I presume AKC.

Can judge dictate which bird you pick up after the blind is run? I guess I can see "pick up one" (diversion or mark) before the other two are thrown.
Judges cannot dictate order of pickup. I believe they also can't make you pick up a mark before all are down. Thus the delayed triple where one or two birds are thrown, pull of and run a blind, then come back to the line where the remaining bird(s) are thrown, pick up the marks in any order, is very popular up here the last year or so.

I also believe that a diversion is not considered a mark so they could throw a diversion on the return from the blind and have you pick that up before picking up the marks.
 

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Judges cannot dictate order of pickup. I believe they also can't make you pick up a mark before all are down. Thus the delayed triple where one or two birds are thrown, pull of and run a blind, then come back to the line where the remaining bird(s) are thrown, pick up the marks in any order, is very popular up here the last year or so.

I also believe that a diversion is not considered a mark so they could throw a diversion on the return from the blind and have you pick that up before picking up the marks.

Running delayed marks sure smells like field trial tests leaking into the hunt test game. I have to ask myself it that's necessary... Maybe it does replicate an average day in the field, pulling off a dead bird to get a cripple.
 

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Try this one out, 3rd series master test in Alabama this Spring. Walk to the line 10 foot from waters edge, there is a small island/grassy knoll 5 foot into the water that is about 15 feet long by 3 feet wide in front of you (with the 15 feet facing you). This is a QUAD, first two on your immediate left firing and hand throwing a bird into the grass on the island, one on your immediate right firing and throwing into the grass/island (remember all three of these birds are being thrown within about 15-20 feet in front of your dog). Then one about 50 yards down the shoreline to your right that launches from a winger with a shot and hits the water about 30 yards offshore and then the gunner shoots a second shot with LIVE AMMO at the duck in the water so that the water explodes!! Then guess what? NO BIRD!!! Run your blind under the arc of the last bird, extended water entry, 50 yard swim then 40 yards up on the hillside. Then pick up all your birds!!
 

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Here's the toughest one i ever ran;

water test in a very sticky stick pond. all swimming water. first and second birds down land in emergent vegetation on the far bank of the pond. both dead birds thrown right to left. about 75 yds distant, with about 30 yards of seperation. 3rd bird thrown from left to right. dead bird about 40 yds distant. bird lands in a snarl of deadfalls and stumps. dog is given number and retrieves one mark. immediately after delivery a flyer is shot right to left with a sluice about 40-45 yds distant. it wipes out the left-most bird and pretty much lands in line with the middle bird.-Paul
 

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Running delayed marks sure smells like field trial tests leaking into the hunt test game. I have to ask myself it that's necessary... Maybe it does replicate an average day in the field, pulling off a dead bird to get a cripple.
This is the reasoning most often given.


Try this one out, 3rd series master test in Alabama this Spring. Walk to the line 10 foot from waters edge, there is a small island/grassy knoll 5 foot into the water that is about 15 feet long by 3 feet wide in front of you (with the 15 feet facing you). This is a QUAD, first two on your immediate left firing and hand throwing a bird into the grass on the island, one on your immediate right firing and throwing into the grass/island (remember all three of these birds are being thrown within about 15-20 feet in front of your dog). Then one about 50 yards down the shoreline to your right that launches from a winger with a shot and hits the water about 30 yards offshore and then the gunner shoots a second shot with LIVE AMMO at the duck in the water so that the water explodes!! Then guess what? NO BIRD!!! Run your blind under the arc of the last bird, extended water entry, 50 yard swim then 40 yards up on the hillside. Then pick up all your birds!!
Good grief. Some judges just have too much time on their hands.
 

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Try this one out, 3rd series master test in Alabama this Spring. Walk to the line 10 foot from waters edge, there is a small island/grassy knoll 5 foot into the water that is about 15 feet long by 3 feet wide in front of you (with the 15 feet facing you). This is a QUAD, first two on your immediate left firing and hand throwing a bird into the grass on the island, one on your immediate right firing and throwing into the grass/island (remember all three of these birds are being thrown within about 15-20 feet in front of your dog). Then one about 50 yards down the shoreline to your right that launches from a winger with a shot and hits the water about 30 yards offshore and then the gunner shoots a second shot with LIVE AMMO at the duck in the water so that the water explodes!! Then guess what? NO BIRD!!! Run your blind under the arc of the last bird, extended water entry, 50 yard swim then 40 yards up on the hillside. Then pick up all your birds!!
you had 3 birds land on 3' x 15' area? what a waste of 3 marks.......

no doubt that blind was tough, but as a judge, there's no way i'm going to give away 3 marks lke that. i try REAL hard not to give even 1 mark away.

that test would be illegal in a FT; too many diversion birds. i'm wondering if it's illegal as a hunt test scenario.-Paul
 

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After all we routinely have birds skipping like stones across the water 3 feet in front of the dog during a normal days hunt! And we expect them to remember a bird we shot 10 minutes ago too, instead of just handling to pick it up! Yep, all is a normal days hunt fellas! :confused:
shoot a Bufflehead flying at flank speed as it crosses in front of you and tell me what that looks like. they usually fly at 4 to 5 feet height, so when they hit the water they "skip" pretty good.

the skippy duck works a LOT better if it's 20-25 yards out. when the birds are dropped right in the dog's lap, it actually steadies a lot of them up. they seem to see the the ultra close birds as a "setup".

the best test for steadiness is a rooster pheasant at 50-60 yards that's ridden out. throw it second in a triple.-Paul
 

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shoot a Bufflehead flying at flank speed as it crosses in front of you and tell me what that looks like. they usually fly at 4 to 5 feet height, so when they hit the water they "skip" pretty good.

the skippy duck works a LOT better if it's 20-25 yards out. when the birds are dropped right in the dog's lap, it actually steadies a lot of them up. they seem to see the the ultra close birds as a "setup".

the best test for steadiness is a rooster pheasant at 50-60 yards that's ridden out. throw it second in a triple.-Paul
Up here in the NW we call it "Buffle-pong"..... two guys at one end of the slough, two guys at the other end. First group "serves" by jump shooting swimming B-heads. They fly down to the other group who takes their shots which returns the volley to the group at the other end of the slough. Record is four volleys so far before the B-heads are down...
 

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i try REAL hard not to give even 1 mark away.
I think that is why with the new rule changes, the walk up, no the dog off and run a blind then come back and do the triple seems to be pretty popular. With the new rules for a walk up, it doesn't do much as a memory bird unless you have some great grounds.
 

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perhaps, but the reason for the rule change was that judges were throwing birds as memory birds in walkups that were all but unmarkable. i saw several like that last year as a worker. one was 90-100 yds against a treeline in deep shadow. when 45 out of 50 dogs have no idea where the bird is, it's a poor mark. i was throwing that bird and was blowing my guts out with the loudest single reed duck call i own and pointing the popper gun at an angle back towards the line, but there were other stations easily identifiable and the dogs were focused on those as they walked up.-Paul
 

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perhaps, but the reason for the rule change was that judges were throwing birds as memory birds in walkups that were all but unmarkable.
I didn't know that. From what I saw around here, I had just assumed that they made the rule change since they wanted to make it a test of steadiness and having it at 100 yards didn't do that. In these parts it was just the first bird down, but there are always judges I guess who seem to feel good that they can trick a retriever.
 

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Diversion bird fliers are interesting
Judge tried that here and not one dog looked twice at it

Most interesting - 3rd series -Had a single mark on a peninsula, no them off and run a blind to the end of the peninsula. On the way out, diversion is shot and tossed into the water. Finish up the blind, then get the diversion, sit on the mat and watch a double. Pick up the 3 marks. Poison bird diversion only got one dog. Fun watching handlers choose the order of the marks if they didn't have a handle left.
I think I ran that test? And passed...it was interesting to say the least...
 
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