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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, here we go. I have several videos, but I haven't posted any yet. I look forward to some constructive criticism from you guys! I figure I can learn as much from you commenting on my video as I can watching other videos.

This little guy is 10 months. We spent last week learning Baseball (one direction at a time, returning to 'back' every other day). In this video, I identified the piles at the beginning with a mark, then we ran through the drill by memory (his first time). I also use the whistle quite a bit, I'm trying to reinforce his obedience to the whistle as we progress.

I think I added in a pattern blind at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odjBaJGtgQU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the great video! I run that drill, I just call it walking baseball. I use the baseball drill above to teach "basic" casting. Once the dog gets that, I move on to walking baseball and use it from then on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And I will say, Evan's video helped a lot. I will now be using orange bumpers, and not chunking them so far!
 

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Are you following a specific program? Your dog has some talent but if you get one of the major training programs and follow it he will progress and do much better.

IMHO he is not ready to go to Walking Baseball. He needs more simple casting and casting to a pile, etc. I would suggest you go to Total Retriever Training and download their free flowchart. Evan Graham, Smartworks, has a similiar free flowchart. Then I would suggest you pick one of these programs and follow it.

In your video I would shorten the distance between you and your dog greatly. I would also have him come to a front sit rather than a side sit at this point. Also shorten the distance to the bumpers.

Did you start out using a rope? Did you notice how he shopped the pile (pick up one put it down and then picked up another) when you ran the sight blind? You need to prevent this by casting him to a pile on a rope so you can prevent shopping.

You can do an advanced search on my name and find plenty of video examples of simple casting and casting to a pile.

Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Wayne,

I watch your casting videos, they are very helpful! I will definitely download the free flow charts, I didn't know those were available!

I agree he certainly isn't ready for walking baseball. This was our fourth day doing any casting at all. I will put him on the rope, he's the only dog I've had "shop" the pile, and I wasn't sure how to stop it. Thanks man!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
For those asking, I have not chosen to follow a program yet. I've checked out a few of them... But I haven't gone through. Looking at the flow charts, Total Retriever looks to be more along the lines of what I do. I guess I'll print it and try it out? I will need you guys' help defining a few terms.

Also, for clarity sake, I'm calling "baseball" what you guys are calling simple casting. I just called it that from the get go, since the piles are out at all 3 bases. I know the difference in this and "walking baseball"... And this dog definitely isn't ready for walking baseball!
 

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I was in your shoes not long ago. I love the enthusiasm. Wayne offered a great suggestion, buy a program and stick with it. That's important!

Be forewarned, this stuff is addictive and before you know it you'll have a ton of gear. Haha

Have fun!
 

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Looks good to me and thanks for posting. I am a newbie too and all these videos really help.

Will your pup sit in front of you? Looks like you re-heel him each time to get him positioned for the next cast. Teaching him front sit may help with efficiency in training. Good luck!
 

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From my previous posts on using rope and casting to a pile. This is how I work on preventing shopping the pile. Note the distances are short, so that I can use a 20-30 check cord in preventing the dog from shopping. As soon as he picks up a bumper give a come in tug. It is best to prevent this now as pile work is difficult enough without having to fight shopping.

I do not think it is absolutely necessary for the dog to pick up the very first bumper he comes to but should go directly to one bumper without messing around.

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77061

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77259

Hope this helps.
 

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Wayne,

I watch your casting videos, they are very helpful! I will definitely download the free flow charts, I didn't know those were available!

I agree he certainly isn't ready for walking baseball. This was our fourth day doing any casting at all. I will put him on the rope, he's the only dog I've had "shop" the pile, and I wasn't sure how to stop it. Thanks man!
What other training did you do to prepare for handling?

Evan
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wayne,

The videos are very helpful. They are similar to how I started, minus the rope. I think I will back up, work on front sit (I usually do front sit when I begin working on whistle sits) and use the rope.

Do you use the rope just until the dog appearss to "get it"?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Evan,

I used place boards early on (with a rope) & then moved on to the drill in the video.

As is obvious, I'm a newbie. Just training because I found myself loving it more and more. I would love to know more drills that would help! So far I only know this one, walking baseball, and 8-handed casting (set up like this drill). For lining I use wagon wheels & the "staggering" drill... And of course setting up taught & pattern blinds.
 

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Nice, I am doing the same type of stuff with my dog. I guess I am going to have to post a video for feedback. Another thing that might help out is bowwowflix.com you can rent DVD series.
 

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From my last video, three piles with rope, TRT goes directly into ecollar conditioning. In fact, TRT states that the casting shouldn't be perfect but say 90%. Once ecollar conditioning is completed (including ecollar fetch) then Lardy comes back to simple casting and introduces indirect pressure for lack of effort (serious mistakes). When he comes back to casting after cc it is without a rope.
Evan asked a good question. Did you lay the proper foundation by completing the early items on the TRT flowchart? ff, walking ff, stick fetch, etc. From my read on the dog, it looks like it has been thru ff but has he been thru walking ff and stick fetch?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't know what walking FF & stick Fetch are? Perhaps, but I can't be certain until I know the definitions :)

He's been through FF. He is British, and I implement a lot of British training technique. I rarely use e-collar, but he is CC'd.
 

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The first video is walking ff. Dog walks at heel and you tell to fetch. Note that I am walking by some and not letting him fetch. And slightly restraining him on some so that he fetches thru the restraint.

The second video demos stick fetch. This is where you tell him to fetch and at the same time slap him on the butt with the heeeling stick. This is for two reasons: preparatory sting prior to ecollar cc and collar fetch and second he has to fetch thru a distraction (a slap on the butt). This was the first stick fetch season with Hank so the taps are pretty soft. Note you don't stick him every time.



http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76770
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I ran through walking FF w/ my female tonight. After 3 or 4 bumpers, she really got it. I'll do it again tomorrow and then move to the stick. Very helpful stuff.

I also ran through simple casting on the rope. He didn't try to shop a pile until 4 or 5 casts in, I pulled the rope quickly. He tried it once more then left it alone. I'll try to video a session on the rope soon. In many ways, it helps... But the rope certainly makes it difficult to run through drills. I guess it takes some getting used to.
 

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Did you start out using a rope? Did you notice how he shopped the pile (pick up one put it down and then picked up another) when you ran the sight blind? You need to prevent this by casting him to a pile on a rope so you can prevent shopping.
How serious an offence is shopping the pile? I have heard two arguments for not stressing about it:

1) There won't be a pile of ducks at a test/trial/hunt
2) One person reported trouble with scent articles in Utility Obedience, the dog would not work the pile because he had been taught specifically not to do that.

My sample size is very small (n=2), and pile shopping seems to be pretty universally regarded as a fault among retriever trainers, so what's the deal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
For me, I want to stop it because I believe it slows down training and is a distraction from the drill and, worst of all, encourages switching on say a very close proximity diversion bird.

I know I'm the one being taught the lesson, but I want my dog picking up one bird & bringing me THAT bird, no matter what else is out there, every time.
 
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