New judge asking questions

2950 Views 25 Replies 15 Participants Last post by ChrisRobt, Jun 1, 2007

ChrisRobt

Discussion Starter · May 31, 2007

Okay, despite it being over 90 degrees today, I'm wearing my full camo outfit (flameproof) and carrying a stick which is supposed to be a gun. I see a group of RTFers sitting in the shade under a tree and walk up to ask them a couple judging questions; I did my apprenticeship in April but have yet to judge and like to discuss things I see which I believe to be out of the ordinary. When I post my query I am criticized publically (and privately) for asking such a question (new master judge and all that); I'm also criticized about how my dog works and the clothing I am wearing. I thought this forum was supposed to be a good place to discuss training and judging issues.

Many of you do not know that in "real life" I am a primary care physician-now retired. I have found throughout my 35+ years in practice that I can always learn something new from others (not just physicians as other health care workers also have valuable insights and ideas). Thank goodness when I was an intern (a newly certified doctor, if you will), when I asked another physician for an opinion about a patient I was dealing with, I was met with an open mind and not criticism for not having the answer. There is alot to medicine which is not in the books and I have always found it valuable to consult with others over new or difficult issues. As I've become the "experienced" doctor, I've enjoyed passing my knowledge on to those who are new. When we consult with each other, we are careful to protect the identities of our patients (unless they are shared) and do not ever purposely denigrate them

I approach this forum in the same manner but guess I may be wrong about it. Yes, I am relatively new to this sport having qualified my first master dog only last September. I am not a hunter so according to many on this forum have no business even considering becoming a judge. I'll
do as good a job as I can. I can read all the rules but there is still alot to learn about how to interpret them. I believe that I learn best by discussing particular issues which I have encountered with those who have more experience. I know the AKC rules but am interested in how experienced judges interpret them.

So, is there a place on RTF to ask questions about judging issues without the severe criticism? Is this a "good old boys" club to which I can never belong because I don't run a black dog? Because I don't hunt, am I not a suitable candidate to become and AKC judge??

See less See more

Save

21 - 26 of 26 Posts

Trevor Toberny

· #21 · May 31, 2007

Also I believe I have only asked one other person but I could be wrong. :roll:

Save

Mark

· #22 · May 31, 2007

K G said:
If the working dog handler is making too much noise trying to control their dog coming to the line, the working dog judge needs to have the intestinal fortitude to tell that handler to go back to the holding blind and try coming the line again UNDER CONTROL,

This strikes me as strange. When else do we get a second chance. "Ah Judge do you mind if I just try that honor again" as the dog sets sail for the breaking bird, or "Ah, judge do you mind if we just try the memory bird again" when fido is off in the next county.

I thought dog and handler were under judgment from when they left the blind until they were behind the judges. Ignore it, Score it, or Zero it seems more appropriate

Possibly a little more leeway in the junior stakes might be appropriate, but I was not aware that the regs and guidelines gave second chances except in cases of no birds unfairness and re-runs.

Mark

Save

K G

· #23 · May 31, 2007

This strikes me as strange. When else do we get a second chance. "Ah Judge do you mind if I just try that honor again" as the dog sets sail for the breaking bird, or "Ah, judge do you mind if we just try the memory bird again" when fido is off in the next county.

Nowhere did I suggest that the handler could ask permission. Look at the "honor" thread and you'll see my statement about what you should expect if you ask the judge for an interference call. Any handler that has control issues out the blind is going to attempt to get their dog under control, especially with that "tractably at heel" wording in the regs/guidelines. This was a Senior hunting test. As stated in the HT regs/guidelines, the judges are in control of the testing. Asking a handler at ANY test level to take a dog back to the holding blind puts them and the dog on notice: "Come out of the blind under control, or you may be excused." Judges have a lot of discretion when it comes to making those decisions. You'll see that too when you start to judge.

I thought dog and handler were under judgment from when they left the blind until they were behind the judges. Ignore it, Score it, or Zero it seems more appropriate

They are indeed under judgement at that time...JUDGEMENT being the key word. When you're in the chair, you can pick from those three options only if you so choose. Might want to check with your co-judge before you do, though. :wink:

Possibly a little more leeway in the junior stakes might be appropriate, but I was not aware that the regs and guidelines gave second chances except in cases of no birds unfairness and re-runs.

I would probably tend to give less leeway at the Junior level because the dogs can come to the line under gentle restraint with a flat buckle collar. Any Junior handler that choose to come to the line off-lead is taking their entry fee into their own hands. The second chances you're referring to have to do with unfairness and reruns AFTER the birds go down/the test starts, not on the way to the line. :wink:

Thanks for the nice note you wrote after the Chattanooga trial, and good luck in Utah!

See less See more

Save

TxFig

· #24 · May 31, 2007

ChrisRobt said:
I am not a hunter so according to many on this forum have no business even considering becoming a judge.

From page 5 of the rulebook:
"Note* It is strongly recommended that only those judges with an extensive background in the hunting of waterfowl and/or upland game be invited to judge an AKC Retriever Hunting Test."

Because I don't hunt, am I not a suitable candidate to become and AKC judge??

Honestly, imho, no, you're not.

But before you get upset at that, I would suggest that instead of giving up on judging, you go hunting instead. Besides making you a better judge, you might find you'll like it.

Edit: I just noticed that you started judging at the Master level. Imho, this is never a good idea. It's such a good rule, that the HRC has a RULE that you have to start at the lower levels and work your way up. For one thing, you'll learn alot about judging by starting in Junior.

Save

TxFig

· #25 · Jun 1, 2007

Christine:
No reply to my suggestion that you might want to go hunting?

Save

ChrisRobt

Discussion Starter · #26 · Jun 1, 2007

CNBarnes said:
Christine:
No reply to my suggestion that you might want to go hunting?

Several years ago I was invited to bring my first IWS to a "youth hunt" (no, we wern't hunting kids, but the season opened a week early for kids to try hunting). They needed dogs to work with the kids so I brought Pip along. He had never done anything like this, but easily quartered the field in front of myself, the kid and his dad and another experienced gunner (who was watching for gun safety). Pip missed the first planted pheasant, but found and flushed the second; the kid missed and Pip was most disappointed when it flew away. Now he knew what he was looking for and easily found that first pheasant; he flushed it and the kid winged it. pip found and flushed the pheasant again and the kid missed. On the third flush, the kid killed the bird and when it came down, Pip pounced on it-I'm sure he wanted to make sure it didn't get away again. The kid was worried that Pip would harm the bird, but I reassured him and told him to ask Pip to "give" him the bird.

I sure enjoyed watching Pip work that field, find and flush the bird and then retrieve it. I think I might enjoy hunting...

See less See more

Save

21 - 26 of 26 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month