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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am a new member and am sans dog at the moment but I have the green light from the wife to place the deposit. I posed a question on the refuge a couple weeks ago and a few members (one of which was Jeff on here) steered me in the right direction.

the breeding that i am now considering looks a little like this. there is a 30 month health guarentee and i beleive a discount on EIC carriers

Blaze's Accomplishments:
• First started pass at 6 months
• SHR title at only 9 months
• HR title at only 10 months
• HRCH title at only 16 months
• Senior Title at 2 years old
• Master Hunter Title at 2 years old
• First Grand Pass at 3 years old in South Dakota
GRAND TITLE @ 4YRS OLD - 2011 Spring Grand
Blaze's Health Information:
DOB: 4-18-06
AKC#: SR34159302
Weight: 80lbs
OFA (Hips): LR-175319E24M-VPI (Excellent)
OFA (Elbow): LR-EL42190M33(Normal)
Eyes: CERF LR51988/2008--26
CNM: Clear
EIC: Clear

Dam: Barracuda's Mississippi Shadow
Shadow is the daughter of FC AFC BARRACUDA BLUE MH. She has a stong hunting instict, crazy about birds. Very loyal. Weighs 70lbs.
Shadow's Health Info:
DOB:11/27/2007
Weight: 70lbs
AKC#: SR46586106
OFA: (HIPS) LR-1894223E33F-VPI (EXCELLENT)
ELBOWS: LR-48614F33-VPI (NORMAL)
CERF: LR-355756 (11)
CNM: CLEAR
EIC: Carrier (Not Affected, and the pups will not be Affected, Blaze is Clear) The pups will be EIC tested and microchipped for ID.

as far as that goes it looks like a sound breeding. the dam is not titled but i have seen blaze breeding with titled mothers go for a LOT more money (400-600 more) than this breeding. more than i am willing to spend

in order to get to my question i must do a little explaining...it is a repeat litter and i asked for some owner phone numbers who had pups from the previous litter. He gave me 3 trainers numbers who had pups in training. i called the first he said that the pup was phenomenal he was 13 months old, and that he caught on real quick and was sent home at 8 months to go through hunting season and is back now to brush up to get ready for tests. and that he himself might be interested in a pup out of this litter

the second said he had no opinion on the dog since it was only 2-3 months old and he hadnt even taken him in yet to train. he said that he had trained a blaze dog out of a different dam and that it was very vocal and creeping when it was supposed to be steady he compared it to chopper if that means anything

the third trainer, said he too had a 2-3 month old and that his opinion was that the dog had no drive. he brought the owner to his kennel to meet the dog only a week before and the pup seemed to be lazy and wouldnt do hup-hups or fun bumpers. he said that the owner was a **** hunter and he may have treated this pup like you would one of those dogs but he believed that 50% of the dogs lack of drive came from the breeding and the other 50 from the owner. he has not begun training but he does plan on it.

All of this to come full circle and ask..knowing that shadow has been bred at least 3 heats in a row to blaze is it ok for the pups? i know it cant be for her?

and does anyone have any experience with blaze pups? this dog will be trained by me (first time trainer) and primarily be a meat and house dog. but if it shows the drive for hunt tests i am willing if he is.

thanks and looking forward to responses and my time on here (instead of working)

EDIT: it wouldnt let me post up the pedigrees URL because i need 5 posts but you can google shadows full name and one will show up on gundogbreeder and shadow's seems to be known by most people but google is your friend as well
 

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I don't know the dogs in question or the breeder. I'd suggest you not get caught up in the initial price. That's the cheapest part of dog ownership. I'd also encourage to remember that the dam is at least 50% of the equation. In most instances, I'd be cautious about buying a pup from a bitch that had no title or shown any base level of desire/trainability in some retriever game venue. You can't just look at the pedigree. Dogs vary so much even in the same litters. I've seen dogs who were littermates to FC's you couldn't have paid me to take. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
beleive me i got the price lecture over at the refuge and upped my spending limit by 300 more. now this is the absolute ceiling. the wife may physically beat me if i suggest we increase it to 12-1500
 

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On this same site under classified, lab puppies, there is a Blaze litter with a titled female. Black pups are $1,000. Pups are in Jonesboro, AR. I bet you could negotiate a slightly lower price. There are lots of good pups for $1,000 or less. Don't be in a hurry and increase your chances of a good puppy with a titled dam.

AR) GRHRCH Blaze MH X GRHRCH Echo MH
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
On this same site under classified, lab puppies, there is a Blaze litter with a titled female. Black pups are $1,000. Pups are in Jonesboro, AR. I bet you could negotiate a slightly lower price. There are lots of good pups for $1,000 or less. Don't be in a hurry and increase your chances of a good puppy with a titled dam.

AR) GRHRCH Blaze MH X GRHRCH Echo MH
except i am wanting a chocolate. and they are 1250. which is the cheapest litter with blaze as a sire and titled female i have seen the rest were 1500+
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
PMs. i am truly sorry for stepping on toes of those who opened this thread expecting something else. please i am a noob and i have messages to return. i'll go back into my cupboard now
 

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Pls don't pick color over the quality of the puppy.
 

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I'd have to ask why neither parent has a current CERF. Is anyone worried about juvenile cataracts any more? The bitch only has one done at 11 mos and the male at 2 yrs. Any testing on RD? Juvenile cataracts are something that can pop up (along w/ a lot of other stuff) thru ~6 yrs according to my ACVO. How about PRA? Yes, less likely in the field lines, but not unheard of.

If there was a current eye exam and they can show you it's normal, that's cool. Next I'd look on OFA and study the vertical pedigree and make sure I'm comfortable w/ that too.

I also would caution about getting too hung up on color.
 

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Are you saying that the dam has been bred 3 seasons in a row? If so, it sounds like she is being used for a brood bitch and nothing more.
 

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Are you saying that the dam has been bred 3 seasons in a row? If so, it sounds like she is being used for a brood bitch and nothing more.
Sounds correct. Poor girl
 

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don't hide,
welcome to RTF!

.
Sadly a lot of new people get hammered by PM's for asking a question around here. It usually isn't very nice. It would seem no one understands that people like to stick to a budget and it also is deemed stupid on this board if you have a coat color picked out. I am sure he got some pretty rude Pm's but I am also sure he will get some good advice in them as well. THe only thing that could have made the PM's or this thread worse is if he said he wanted a silver...


Welcome to the board, I have no background with either dog so i cannot be of help there. The CERF issue that was brought up seems to be an issue to consider though.
 

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I'd have to ask why neither parent has a current CERF. Is anyone worried about juvenile cataracts any more? The bitch only has one done at 11 mos and the male at 2 yrs. Any testing on RD? Juvenile cataracts are something that can pop up (along w/ a lot of other stuff) thru ~6 yrs according to my ACVO. How about PRA? Yes, less likely in the field lines, but not unheard of.
Okay, here is where I think a lot of people lose a lot of money, worrying about things they can do nothing about. These dogs PASSED CERF once, why would you do it again and again in the future? Especially at 5 and 6 years of age when the dog has most likely been bred multiple times? At that point, you aren't going to be able to change anything. Even if your dog passes all the CERF's, he/she could still throw pups with eye issues.
I feel it is a great pull from Eye vets to get as much money as possible out of breeders.........

Sounds correct. Poor girl
I don't know the breeder, I don't know the dog. But there is nothing poor about simply breeding a female 3 heat cycles in a row. It is simply a humans look at how "we" would feel about it. Did you look at the dog? If the dog is in excellent condition, does a great job with her puppies, rebounds very quickly from her litters, I see nothing wrong with doing several litters in a row. How do you know that the dog doesn't go 9 months between her cycles? That leaves 6 months in between to hang out, rebound a bit, and continue enjoying life.

Best regards
 
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