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I posted a few days ago (his name is Trooper) on here about advice on crate training my 8 week old chocolate lab. Using the advice i got from him in only 3 or so days i can see alot of improvement. Back 3-4 months ago when we found out we were going to get a pup i went ahead and ordered Rick Stawski's Fowl Dog 3 disc set and went ahead and watched them.

I like the video alot but he doesnt tell you how to make the dog sit other than "feeding them hot dog treats" when they do it . He doesnt go into detail like on other things (the best i can remember) .Is that the best way to do it? Tell him to sit, and when he does give him a treat?

Ive also had problems with Trooper wanting to chew on his leash when he has it on. He has been wearing a collar since we got him but he doesnt have on his leash alot. What should i do to correct this?
 

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When I taught my pup to sit, I did the following:

Get pup interested in the treat.
Take the treat and raise it up above his head. This will naturally position the pup so his butt angles down.
Say sit while gently pushing his butt to the ground.
As soon as his butt hit the ground, give him the treat, pet and say good boy.
After a little bit, get the pup up on his feet by moving treat forward and upward.
Repeat process.

You'll see that after a few times, the pup will sit on his own and you'll no longer need to assist him to actually sit. Just keep your sessions short. Mine were no longer than 3 or so minutes.

As far as the leash thing, it's natural that he'll go after it. I basically would say NO, followed by Drop, and then removed it from his mouth. This may not be the best thing, but it's what I did and seemed to work well.

David
 

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Now is a good time to introduce the word NO. I was having problems with my pup chewing his leash. Through sheer repetitiveness of removing the leash and saying no he will now spit it out on command. And treat training is a great way to start with obedience. Eventually you transition into using praise for the compliance.
 

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I posted a few days ago (his name is Trooper) on here about advice on crate training my 8 week old chocolate lab. Using the advice i got from him in only 3 or so days i can see alot of improvement. Back 3-4 months ago when we found out we were going to get a pup i went ahead and ordered Rick Stawski's Fowl Dog 3 disc set and went ahead and watched them.

I like the video alot but he doesnt tell you how to make the dog sit other than "feeding them hot dog treats" when they do it . He doesnt go into detail like on other things (the best i can remember) .Is that the best way to do it? Tell him to sit, and when he does give him a treat?

Ive also had problems with Trooper wanting to chew on his leash when he has it on. He has been wearing a collar since we got him but he doesnt have on his leash alot. What should i do to correct this?


No book or video is complete. It would take volumes of books to fully communicate what is known and applied dealing with the sit command and most people would fall asleep reading or watching it.
Your dog is at a stage where treats are your best option. There will come a time when you might morph into corrections ,, force,,,and withholding the treats or bumpers until you get your exact behavior. Dealing with sit will change as your dog and yourself change. Some dogs are simple and others take ten men looking silly and still can't get the dog to sit,,,so use what you have then learn and adapt from there.

Pete
 

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As Yoda4x4 stated, put the treat above the dogs nose and push down on the rear. Some folks will pinch the lower spine (not hard) with their fingers....that's supposed to trigger some sort of muscle reaction.
 

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:)
When I taught my pup to sit, I did the following:

Get pup interested in the treat.
Take the treat and raise it up above his head. This will naturally position the pup so his butt angles down.
Say sit while gently pushing his butt to the ground.
As soon as his butt hit the ground, give him the treat, pet and say good boy.
After a little bit, get the pup up on his feet by moving treat forward and upward.
Repeat process.

You'll see that after a few times, the pup will sit on his own and you'll no longer need to assist him to actually sit. Just keep your sessions short. Mine were no longer than 3 or so minutes.

As far as the leash thing, it's natural that he'll go after it. I basically would say NO, followed by Drop, and then removed it from his mouth. This may not be the best thing, but it's what I did and seemed to work well.

David
This is a good explanation of teaching sit!
I wouldn't worry about the lead right now. 8 weeks they chew on everything! Any lead work at this age should be fun and only encourage the pup to follow along. You may want to get a lead that isn't easily chewed through but once he gets used to dragging it for awhile it won't be a problem. Sometimes I think we create bigger issues by focusing too much on small ones :)
 

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I never pushed his rear down. I found that if I just kept the treat going back over his head he eventually had to sit down to keep watching it. The nanosecond his rear hit the ground I gave him the treat and praised him like a crazy man. Which wasn't too hard in my case.

After 2-3 times of this you can say "Sit" as you show him the treat. He will be conditioned to sit when he sees the treat, so you are chaining that behavior together with the command. It won't be long after that until you can just say "sit" and he will do it, and then you need to reward him immediately when his rear touches. After a few more sessions, you can just praise him for sitting, but you need treat him intermittently for a while to sort of proof the behavior. I.e., he'll sit every time because he never knows when a treat is coming.

This is really not much more than Pavlov's dog at this point.
 

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I don't like treats! Just my personal choice. I just have a problem with dogs being so food oriented that their stomach juices start flowing when we ask them to do something. Like I said, just my personal choice.

I will put the pup on a lead at about 9 weeks. I will then say the command "sit" while at the same time pulling up slightly on the leash and pushing his butt to the ground. Then I do lots of praise. Doesn't take long with about 5 times per session and about 3 sessions per day for them to be sitting well on command. They may need a reminder now and then but it becomes more solid with time and repetition. Later, when they are sitting well with the verbal command I will add the whistle blast, too.

BHB
 

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Google lure and reward method. It works well with sit, down, heel, any command where you can lure the pup into position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I worked with Trooper today on sit for the first time. He did good I thought. After he would sit and get the treat we would walk a little ways and do it again. Some of the time he would sit before I even got the treat out or said anything. When he did this I walked a little ways and tried to get him standing before I pulled out the treat, and got him to sit either by command or by pushing down on his rear. Is this right?
 

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I don't like treats! Just my personal choice. I just have a problem with dogs being so food oriented that their stomach juices start flowing when we ask them to do something. Like I said, just my personal choice
I didn't either until I unexpectedly got a LeanMac X FC pup just before I had to leave on vacation. Some friends said they would keep him for me. When I came back he was puppy obedience trained with treats and they never had a puppy before. Since then I start them all off with treats when they are tiny for obedience but once they are retrieving, which is fairly quickly, the retrieve becomes the treat. I think many of us do it that way but we stop relatively quickly before it "gets their juices flowing". It's the fastest way to get them to come without CC. I do it because t works.
 

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I didn't either until I unexpectedly got a LeanMac X FC pup just before I had to leave on vacation. Some friends said they would keep him for me. When I came back he was puppy obedience trained with treats and they never had a puppy before. Since then I start them all off with treats when they are tiny for obedience but once they are retrieving, which is fairly quickly, the retrieve becomes the treat. I think many of us do it that way but we stop relatively quickly before it "gets their juices flowing". It's the fastest way to get them to come without CC. I do it because t works.

What Nancy said; this is what I do too...treats when they are babies, and transition to retrieves as the reward as fast (fast probably isn't the right word) as pup allows. Get the Jackie Mertens video on puppy training, or better yet, search this forum for Wayne Nutt and his recent videos of his pup Rowdy (by Pirate)...Wayne is using several Mertens techniques, and his videos are a great example of how it should go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well i ordered Jackie Mertens "Sound Beginnings" DVD. I have read alot of good things about the dvd. I hope it will work good for me and Trooper.
 

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I think leash chewing is a stage all pups go though. It was my understanding it was a dominance issue so don't allow it. Get out there and play with him with the leash on, don't give him time to want to chew on it. He's a pup and just needs to get use to new things!
 

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Now is a good time to introduce the word NO. I was having problems with my pup chewing his leash. Through sheer repetitiveness of removing the leash and saying no he will now spit it out on command. And treat training is a great way to start with obedience. Eventually you transition into using praise for the compliance.
Just my 2¢...

I am not in favor of the use of the word "no" except in extreme situations. "No," in my opinion and experience, should be reserved for truly serious and/or life-threatening situations and not used so often that the word is associated with simple disapproval or correction instead of keeping a dog away from potentially truly dangerous situations or behaviors. In the miles my Sadie and I have put in over almost 8 years of hunting upland and waterfowl from Baja to Montana, and the many additional miles hiking in all kinds of terrain and weather, I have only used the word "no" when I have seen a dangerous situation develop. I'm sure there are far more experienced trainers and owners out there who might disagree with me, but I believe there should be one word (in this case "no") that will absolutely, positively stop your dog in its tracks before a bad situation develops.

It sort of goes to the word "sit." When I give the command "sit," I mean Sadie must sit...and stay at a sit...until she's released. I should not have to repeat "sit," "stay," "sit," "stay," "stay" once the "sit" command has been given. "Sit" means "sit" until she's given another command or is released. Likewise, "no" means absolutely "no"...don't do what you're doing...stop it, NOW.

Since I'm on a bit of a roll, consider a dog's name. If the call name ends in a syllable that sounds like "no" (like "Bo," or "Joe," or "Mo" or whatever), there is likely to be either (1) confusion on the dog's part when you teach "no" and/or (2) having the word "no" become ineffective when it's really needed.

"No" can be an invaluable command. It can save a dog from injury or worse. Use a different command when teaching the basics so that "no" doesn't have to be used. Again, "sit" means "sit"..."down" means "down"..."off" means "off"..."drop it" means "drop it"...etc. etc. etc. And when you command "no," you're being as serious as a heart attack.

Treats for training? Whatever "floats your boat." Arguments abound for and against, so my feeling is to use whatever works best for you, recognizing the pitfalls of treat-based training in the long term.

Wow. That wasn't "my 2¢"...that was more like my "$2.00!!"
 

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The Jackie Mertens video will be perfect for you. Follow everything in it the best you can.


Here is a list of some things you could be doing with your puppy before he turn 4 months old or so.

õ Puppy Basics
Ø Lavish lots of attention on new pup as soon has he arrives
Ø Put nylon collar on new pup
§ When used to collar add 6’ lead. Let pup run around unrestrained to get used to lead. Then add leash.
§ Limit walks to 5 minutes at first

Ø Expose pup to many environments and situations that are safe
§ Go on walks alone, carry pup into fields
§ Maintain eye contact
§ Always air pup before any training. When airing, Stop, Look and Wait. Give praise
§ Observe pups gait, ear and tail positions. Helps you to recognize pups attitude
§ In field keep pups attention. Move off and call when he seems occupied
§ Keep pup away from unknown dogs and places until 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] shot series
§ Introduce to Parks, Gravel, Concrete, Puddles, and Vegetation etc.
§ Introduce to Steps, Tunnels, Barriers, Elevated surfaces (et Table),
§ Toys of different Size, Weight, Texture and Noise

Ø Play
§ Focus play sessions with you as center of attention
§ Socialize play with other dogs
· Learns how to behave around other canines
· Use caution around older dogs
§ Observe pups mannerisms
· Dominant or submissive
· Intensity
· Attention span
·
õ 7-16 Weeks
Ø Begin basic obedience training with treats 3-4 days after pup arrives home.
§ Commands: Here, Sit, Heel, Down, No Bite, No Noise, OK.
§ Use Puparoni or soft treats, cheese or hotdog bits not biscuits which require too much attention from pup
§ Dog eventually will be under your control at all times with these commands
§ Watch and follow Jackie Mertens puppy video
§ Teach Fast pup slow, slow pup fast
§ 1 or 2 commands at a time
§ 5-6 minutes each session
§ Several times a day for 6-7 days

Ø Here (Pup needs to be solid on Here)
§ See-Saw Drill.
· Alternate calling pup back and forth between you and a friend. “Here” Start about 6’ apart and than move back. Restrain pup gently on the chest and release when he is called.
· Later, with a treat, lead pup into a heel/sit position when he comes to you.
Ø Sit (Sit also means Stay)
§ Teach Sit for several days in quiet place with no leash
§ Be on knees
§ Raise hand with treat slightly above and behind pups head and pup will sit
§ Say sit after pup sits
§ Have pup sit for his meal, release him to eat after brief sit

Ø Front Sit
§ Teach square front sit, pup will be facing you.
§ Attentive posture, looking up at you
§ Show where legs go if necessary, rear feet should be under butt.
§ Gently step on foot and he will tuck it under

Ø L & R Heel
§ Lead pup back with treat as you step back slightly, step forward and lead pup forward with treat. Mix in sit.

Ø No
§ Teach word “No” for hard biting, chewing, or barking

Ø Release Command (Go On, OK) etc. Free to air or play
§ Pup needs a release command to come off of a sit or heel

Ø No Noise
§ If noisy in crate, smack crate and command No Noise
§ Squeeze muzzle and command No Noise

Ø Down
§ Teach down, no jumping up
§ Do not pet pup when he jumps up. Sit him and then praise & pet him

Ø Settle
§ Teach pup to settle down and be calm when being handled or having nails clipped
§ Get pup comfortable with being handled. Touch his feet, ears, mouth etc while in down position

Ø Stand
§ Teach stand up from sit or down position

Ø Jumping Obstacles
§ Indoors, over your outstretch leg. Low at first than higher “Over”
§ Outdoors walk with pup over various obstacles
§
Ø Kennel
§ Teach “kennel” command to get pup into crate, car, dog truck etc.


Ø Introduce Water
§ Shallow, warm water at first
§ Do not force pup into water, let him check it out first
§ Don’t use leash or cord
§ Get in water yourself if necessary
§ Let pup go in water for a short retrieve, meet pup at waters edge when he comes back

Ø Puppy Bumpers
§ Introduce right away in quiet indoors area, use hallway so pup must return to you.
· Tease with bumper, slow toss maybe 5-6 feet. Limit to 3-4 throws max
¨ Lengthen when doing well
¨ Send over jumps and under table etc
· Use Soft Bumpers or cloth dummies
· Later use small 2’x 9”white plastic knobby bumpers

Ø Retrieving Introduction
§ Strive to be 90% successful
§ Use long check cord if necessary 30’
§ Retrieves should be done on field with short grass so pup can easily see bumper.
§ 1[SUP]st[/SUP] throws are thrown by a helper in towards angled handler and about 20-30 yards away, later throws are angled away from handler and not in.
§ Restrain pup briefly, make sure his eyes are on the throw, and then release pup after throw hits the ground. This is not the time to Steady your pup
· If pup goes to thrower, thrower should run to mark with pup
· Thrower should re throw if necessary to get pup to area of fall

Ø Introduction to Fetch/Give or Drop (No pressure)
§ Teach Fetch and Give from hand
· Start with pup between legs at first
· Have him fetch bumper from your hand, pet him and take bumper back, ask him to fetch again
· Fetch / Give / Fetch / Give etc.
· No pressure at this time

Ø If retrieving well at 9 weeks introduce pup to birds
§ Start with pigeon or even bird wings
§ Do not allow pup to play with birds or to pluck feathers
§ Switch to ducks when pup is big enough to pick them up
§ Discontinue birds with pup if problems persist like eating birds etc

Ø Introduce Doubles Retrieves
§ When 100% successful with singles
§ Should be started several days after successful singles with a good pup
§ Have throws separated by barrier to prevent switching
· Fence with gate for example or down 2 sides of house etc.
· Throws should be 180% apart at first, tighter angles later
· First teach memory mark as a single
· Then throw as a double
· Setup double so pup must come back by you with 1[SUP]st[/SUP] bumper
· When successful setup throws closer together with no barrier
· Do not push dogs face to mark

Ø Introduce Water Marks (over 65 degree water temp)
§ Avoid cheating situations
§ Start at waters edge
§ Straight entries
§ Bumper in center of pond no land closer than you
§ Send through cover at edge of pond

Ø Continue Obedience training
§ At about 4 months or so it’s time to put a Pinch Collar on pup to continue with more formal obedience. Use collar corrections to enforce commands, Here, Heel & Sit.
§ Avoid using a “Choke Collar”. You can damage your dogs’ throat. Use a pinch collar.
§ Go on short walk every day and drill on Sit, Here & Heel. Dog should be really solid on “Here”.

Ø Introduce Gunfire
§ Introduce gun fire at a distance
§ Expose pup to big dog training days
§ Fire shot at distance (22 Blanks out about 50-75 yds)
§ Have bird boy throw bumper and than shoot, pup will focus on fall not gun
pup should associate gun shot with retrieve.
avoid shooting anywhere near your puppy even if you intend to hunt over him later.
 

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Hey Devlin
You may want to consider rethinking how you think about using the word NO simply for emergencies.
I too use NO when the dog is approaching an alligator or about to walk into traffic.
However, my dogs clearly also understand different meanings of the word No when used for different situations.
For example, dog humping another around the house. No, they get off.
On line showing the dog a particular gun and they divert their gaze to a different gun, a soft Nooo here does the job.
Dog is scalloping back when cast on a blind, using attrition, stop dog, NO, cast.
Or simply walking off line and dog is about to snatch a bird off of the rack, NO here.
For a baby puppy it is important they learn the word NO by about 10 weeks of age for things like chewing your shoes, biting too hard, jumping on the coffee table etc.
As they get older No can be taught in different contexts depending on your style.
They definitively know the difference. Off the top of my head I probably use the word no in a dozen different ways.
Cheers
Also, treat training for a baby puppy is almost mandatory until they're say 16 weeks old. After that it's not so necessary unless you have a Golden.
 

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Hey Devlin
You may want to consider rethinking how you think about using the word NO simply for emergencies.
I too use NO when the dog is approaching an alligator or about to walk into traffic.
However, my dogs clearly also understand different meanings of the word No when used for different situations.
For example, dog humping another around the house. No, they get off.
On line showing the dog a particular gun and they divert their gaze to a different gun, a soft Nooo here does the job.
Dog is scalloping back when cast on a blind, using attrition, stop dog, NO, cast.
Or simply walking off line and dog is about to snatch a bird off of the rack, NO here.
For a baby puppy it is important they learn the word NO by about 10 weeks of age for things like chewing your shoes, biting too hard, jumping on the coffee table etc.
As they get older No can be taught in different contexts depending on your style.
They definitively know the difference. Off the top of my head I probably use the word no in a dozen different ways.
Cheers
Also, treat training for a baby puppy is almost mandatory until they're say 16 weeks old. After that it's not so necessary unless you have a Golden.

Yo Breck! Thank you for your thoughts, and as you certainly know, there are almost as many different training philosophies as there are trainers, right? The simple fact is that my philosophy on the use of "no" has worked time and again for us over the years, and it is practiced by many more people than just me. On a personal level, it has saved my Sadie when approaching her first extremely deep coulee during a Montana upland hunt, and when she had her first encounter with a porcupine, and when she came upon a deep and steep barranca in Baja for the first time...it kept her out toxic chemicals as a puppy...simply, the "no" command stopped her in her tracks when it was necessary. I'm confident that if "no" were used too frequently (or indiscriminately) during her "formative years" that it would not have been as effective in field situations.

Maybe it's sort of like rattlesnake avoidance training: some people don't think it's necessary and that the vaccine is enough. Others (like me) believe that avoidance training should be an integral part of the overall training regimen for a hunting retriever...and that, too, has proven itself on three separate occasions for us: twice in Baja and once in Montana when Sadie's training kept us away from snakes that I didn't see or hear.

What did I use (and continue to use) instead of "no?" Typically, if it wasn't one of the basic commands that we all know and love (and I felt it needed a stronger effect than the simple command alone) I'd sternly (and maybe a little loudly for my wife's taste) use Sadie's name before the command. Bottom line is, and as I believe I've said, we all use what works and what we believe to be the best approach...but we also need to remember that the "best" approach is the one that works in both the short and long term in the greatest number of situations.

Just more food for thought!
 
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