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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1) Dog is noisy in the holding blind...
2) Same dog is noisy on line.....
3) You decide to run 2 or 3 blinds before you throw the marks( no sense in rewarding the dog for unwanted behavior...right??)
4) Same dog now on line watching a mark thrown and is quiet...
5) Why is the dog quiet now???

Randy
 

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Because blinds are exercises in control, and the dog's mind is now in tune with what the handler is going to command
 

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Because you have changed up his EXPECTATIONS!
JS
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good answers so far...
 

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Got rid of some of the built up energy.
 

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1) Dog is noisy in the holding blind...
2) Same dog is noisy on line.....
3) You decide to run 2 or 3 blinds before you throw the marks( no sense in rewarding the dog for unwanted behavior...right??)
4) Same dog now on line watching a mark thrown and is quiet...
5) Why is the dog quiet now???

Randy
heres my guess!

The dog is unsure what is going to be expected of him.. So therefore his focus and concentration increases.. He forgets to be noisey.
He has a Full time job now instead of a part time easy button duty thats all his.

Just a dumb arse guess..

Gooser
 

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My theory: As soon as you arrive at the training area, the dog's anticipation and excitement instantly get cranked up a few notches. He's still in the crate, and while you're setting up, this builds. Other dogs are run, amping him up further. By now, he's probably whining. Then you opent the crate, and he wants to run out before being released, so it's "no, kennel!". Stress is building. Finally, he's out of the truck and he's rarying to go, and get's ahead of you and you correct with "heel", and running through your regimen for "heel" issues. Stress increases. You're finally in the holding blind, anticipation and stress are at 80% and the real vocalizing begins, which you correct with "sit, quiet." Guns are firing, duck calls are sounding, dogs are being sent, and Fido has to stay seated in the blind, and the stress has reached 90%, and he can't contain his vocalizing, yawning, etc. Now you walk to the line, and with more "heel" corrections, he can hardly contain himself. But instead of running a mark, you line him up for a blind. Every time you say "Heel, heel, here" while snapping or tapping your leg to get him looking in the right direction, he's whining in protest. You send him for the blind, receive the bird, line up, and send him again, then repeat. The pent-up stress has been given an outlet, he's physically winded (dogs are calmer when they're tired), and his excitement level has abated because blinds aren't as fun as marks.

That's my thinking, but like Charles C. said, I don't know, and am very interested in receiving your input.
 

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My theory: As soon as you arrive at the training area, the dog's anticipation and excitement instantly get cranked up a few notches. He's still in the crate, and while you're setting up, this builds. Other dogs are run, amping him up further. By now, he's probably whining. Then you opent the crate, and he wants to run out before being released, so it's "no, kennel!". Stress is building. Finally, he's out of the truck and he's rarying to go, and get's ahead of you and you correct with "heel", and running through your regimen for "heel" issues. Stress increases. You're finally in the holding blind, anticipation and stress are at 80% and the real vocalizing begins, which you correct with "sit, quiet." Guns are firing, duck calls are sounding, dogs are being sent, and Fido has to stay seated in the blind, and the stress has reached 90%, and he can't contain his vocalizing, yawning, etc. Now you walk to the line, and with more "heel" corrections, he can hardly contain himself. But instead of running a mark, you line him up for a blind. Every time you say "Heel, heel, here" while snapping or tapping your leg to get him looking in the right direction, he's whining in protest. You send him for the blind, receive the bird, line up, and send him again, then repeat. The pent-up stress has been given an outlet, he's physically winded (dogs are calmer when they're tired), and his excitement level has abated because blinds aren't as fun as marks.

That's my thinking, but like Charles C. said, I don't know, and am very interested in receiving your input.

So you are saying to take the wind out of the sails so to speak.

In FT training groups I have been with in the past, they usually do marks first and then blinds last before departing.
My penny worth.

PS...I might add that if doing blinds first instead of marks, then our fifo who is a creation of habit and who is expected to do marks first......
 

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I don't know, but I'd like to hear whatever you have to say about line manners or training in general.
And how you carry this over to a trial or test where you don't have time to run a couple of blinds before running the first series marks.
 

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Negative behaviors are a sign of a dog out of balance. A "noisy" dog is being non-responsive. By having him run blinds, there is an immediate demand for responsiveness.

The proper adjustment to negative behaviors is to design immediate training sessions which enhance the weakest factor(s). He can't run a blind without handler input. Deal with it by "attacking" the cause which means strengthen the dog's weakness.

This concept/approach is based on these factors - retrieving, "birdiness", control, focus and responsiveness.
 

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5) Why is the dog quiet now???
In the holding blind, and at the line, the dog was telling you what
to do.

By running the blinds first, you told the dog that it doesn't get to tell you what to do.

You took away it's sense of "authority", and placed it in a role that made it relinquish control of the situation.
 

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1) Dog is noisy in the holding blind...
2) Same dog is noisy on line.....
3) You decide to run 2 or 3 blinds before you throw the marks( no sense in rewarding the dog for unwanted behavior...right??)
4) Same dog now on line watching a mark thrown and is quiet...
5) Why is the dog quiet now???

Randy
I like to do use indirect pressure in the manner you described as well. Instead of nit picking for line manners directly I would rather use a blind with some pressure on the whistle. Don't know if that's what you are getting at but it does work.
 

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So you are saying to take the wind out of the sails so to speak.

In FT training groups I have been with in the past, they usually do marks first and then blinds last before departing.
My penny worth.

PS...I might add that if doing blinds first instead of marks, then our fifo who is a creation of habit and who is expected to do marks first......
Not to be argumentative, but I am not proposing a solution to the vocalization issue, but rather a possible explanation for why a dog who is being vocal in the blind could be run on 2 or 3 blinds, and come back to the line calm and quiet, ready for marks.

So yes, it is true that FT'ers often train for momentum and high attitude. Is there a case to be made for taking the wind out of a vocal high-roller's sails? I don't know- I'm still trying to get my first dog through SH. But part of my learning process is to take a question or scenario posed by a respected trainer (pro or am), and try to answer or explain it. Mr. Bohn has reportedly had some success in dealing with vocalization issues, and I've had some with my dog (hence my description above), and though it's only a mild issue with my dog, it's a discussion that I pay attention to.
 

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You have just described my dog at the last hunt test we ran. Now I really want to know the answer.
That is the answer to the OP's question. If i have a late number, and its the right time if year (early sun rise), and i have a place, I have run multiple blinds before running the test. Dennis Voigt haS a Come In drill that i like even better than just blinds. But....
The real question is, how do you get the dog to the line in the proper frame of mind at a test or trial when you don't have the time or place to go run blinds before running the first series marks?
 

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I was hoping this was about a noisy annoying neighbor dog and a way to make it stop barking for 45 minutes straight, 1 minute water break, then another 45 minutes all day every day.
 

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That is the answer to the OP's question. If i have a late number, and its the right time if year (early sun rise), and i have a place, I have run multiple blinds before running the test. Dennis Voigt haS a Come In drill that i like even better than just blinds. But....
The real question is, how do you get the dog to the line in the proper frame of mind at a test or trial when you don't have the time or place to go run blinds before running the first series marks?

You can always find a place to work on obedience, or to do wagon wheel drills in the morning. At the 2007 National Am in Evanston, I did both at 5:30 in the morning, under street lamps at a nearby school
 
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