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Noisy dogs

16K views 42 replies 27 participants last post by  linbunting 
#1 ·
1) Dog is noisy in the holding blind...
2) Same dog is noisy on line.....
3) You decide to run 2 or 3 blinds before you throw the marks( no sense in rewarding the dog for unwanted behavior...right??)
4) Same dog now on line watching a mark thrown and is quiet...
5) Why is the dog quiet now???

Randy
 
#2 ·
Because blinds are exercises in control, and the dog's mind is now in tune with what the handler is going to command
 
#3 ·
Because you have changed up his EXPECTATIONS!
JS
 
#6 ·
1) Dog is noisy in the holding blind...
2) Same dog is noisy on line.....
3) You decide to run 2 or 3 blinds before you throw the marks( no sense in rewarding the dog for unwanted behavior...right??)
4) Same dog now on line watching a mark thrown and is quiet...
5) Why is the dog quiet now???

Randy
heres my guess!

The dog is unsure what is going to be expected of him.. So therefore his focus and concentration increases.. He forgets to be noisey.
He has a Full time job now instead of a part time easy button duty thats all his.

Just a dumb arse guess..

Gooser
 
#12 ·
And how you carry this over to a trial or test where you don't have time to run a couple of blinds before running the first series marks.
 
#10 ·
My theory: As soon as you arrive at the training area, the dog's anticipation and excitement instantly get cranked up a few notches. He's still in the crate, and while you're setting up, this builds. Other dogs are run, amping him up further. By now, he's probably whining. Then you opent the crate, and he wants to run out before being released, so it's "no, kennel!". Stress is building. Finally, he's out of the truck and he's rarying to go, and get's ahead of you and you correct with "heel", and running through your regimen for "heel" issues. Stress increases. You're finally in the holding blind, anticipation and stress are at 80% and the real vocalizing begins, which you correct with "sit, quiet." Guns are firing, duck calls are sounding, dogs are being sent, and Fido has to stay seated in the blind, and the stress has reached 90%, and he can't contain his vocalizing, yawning, etc. Now you walk to the line, and with more "heel" corrections, he can hardly contain himself. But instead of running a mark, you line him up for a blind. Every time you say "Heel, heel, here" while snapping or tapping your leg to get him looking in the right direction, he's whining in protest. You send him for the blind, receive the bird, line up, and send him again, then repeat. The pent-up stress has been given an outlet, he's physically winded (dogs are calmer when they're tired), and his excitement level has abated because blinds aren't as fun as marks.

That's my thinking, but like Charles C. said, I don't know, and am very interested in receiving your input.
 
#11 · (Edited)
My theory: As soon as you arrive at the training area, the dog's anticipation and excitement instantly get cranked up a few notches. He's still in the crate, and while you're setting up, this builds. Other dogs are run, amping him up further. By now, he's probably whining. Then you opent the crate, and he wants to run out before being released, so it's "no, kennel!". Stress is building. Finally, he's out of the truck and he's rarying to go, and get's ahead of you and you correct with "heel", and running through your regimen for "heel" issues. Stress increases. You're finally in the holding blind, anticipation and stress are at 80% and the real vocalizing begins, which you correct with "sit, quiet." Guns are firing, duck calls are sounding, dogs are being sent, and Fido has to stay seated in the blind, and the stress has reached 90%, and he can't contain his vocalizing, yawning, etc. Now you walk to the line, and with more "heel" corrections, he can hardly contain himself. But instead of running a mark, you line him up for a blind. Every time you say "Heel, heel, here" while snapping or tapping your leg to get him looking in the right direction, he's whining in protest. You send him for the blind, receive the bird, line up, and send him again, then repeat. The pent-up stress has been given an outlet, he's physically winded (dogs are calmer when they're tired), and his excitement level has abated because blinds aren't as fun as marks.

That's my thinking, but like Charles C. said, I don't know, and am very interested in receiving your input.

So you are saying to take the wind out of the sails so to speak.

In FT training groups I have been with in the past, they usually do marks first and then blinds last before departing.
My penny worth.

PS...I might add that if doing blinds first instead of marks, then our fifo who is a creation of habit and who is expected to do marks first......
 
#13 · (Edited)
Negative behaviors are a sign of a dog out of balance. A "noisy" dog is being non-responsive. By having him run blinds, there is an immediate demand for responsiveness.

The proper adjustment to negative behaviors is to design immediate training sessions which enhance the weakest factor(s). He can't run a blind without handler input. Deal with it by "attacking" the cause which means strengthen the dog's weakness.

This concept/approach is based on these factors - retrieving, "birdiness", control, focus and responsiveness.
 
#14 ·
5) Why is the dog quiet now???
In the holding blind, and at the line, the dog was telling you what
to do.

By running the blinds first, you told the dog that it doesn't get to tell you what to do.

You took away it's sense of "authority", and placed it in a role that made it relinquish control of the situation.
 
#19 ·
I was hoping this was about a noisy annoying neighbor dog and a way to make it stop barking for 45 minutes straight, 1 minute water break, then another 45 minutes all day every day.
 
#21 ·
While no background info was provided by the OP, I think the "calmness" is a product of energy use (lowering the dog's neural firing) along with the act of being under control via running the blinds - then again, the OP didn't say whether the dog had any whistle stops. ;-)

Whether the dog was conditioned to having marks first then blinds, the OP didn't say.
 
#22 ·
Something that was brought up by a very well know Amatuer field trialer at a Lardy clinic I attended was that amatuer trained and handled dogs are more likely to get jacked pre-trial than are dogs that spend most of their days on a pro truck training. I had my whiner there for 5 days of pre-clinic training (2 days with my training group and 3 days with the 12 clinic handlers) plus the 3 1/2 days of clinic. Before the clinic even started, the whining was gone and the creeping was down to front foot movement only. Being exposed to that trial-type environment for 8 straight days did wonders to settle the dog down.
 
#23 · (Edited)
When Randy finally comes clean with his advice, I'm betting he won't be talking so much about running a blind or doing some obedience drills, or any other sequence of events prior to going to the line at the trial. He'll be talking about NOT TEACHING the dog that there is a specified ROUTINE you follow that leads up to a huge, beautiful flyer. ;) After all, if you followed the regimen in his OP every time out, would the dog not BECOME CONDITIONED to leaving the holding blind, running 2 blinds, and THEN ... cue the noise ... sitting down (maybe) to watch the marks. Taking off the energy edge, shifting the mindset to one of control and teamwork, etc. are a part of the equation and will help, but won't the dog quickly learn your new routine? AND on trial day, it all goes out the window. These dogs ain't stupid. They know where they are.

There are a lot of things you can do in training to establish the "what are we going to do now" mindset when you leave the holding blind. Cold honors are great, for example. How about getting out of the truck, standing in the holding blind while the birds are shot for the running dog, then going back to the truck. As many times as it takes. Keep the dog guessing and only once in a while, do the standard ready, set, go sequence. Get creative.

And for those of you that don't get many opportunities to train in a group with a trial atmosphere, all the better. Take advantage of those precious group training days with the club to work on your weakness. So what if you drive 2 hours to the training day and your dog only gets one retrieve. GREAT! Are you there to show your buddies how your high rolling, high drive superdog can do that triple? Or are you there to train?

On the flip side, I had a nice dog from show breeding who's desire was adequate but I wanted to amp him up a little and get him a little more excited and focused on "out in the field". So how would you TEACH this dog to get excited? How about coming out of the blind, taking about 3 steps toward the line and BANG, out comes a nice rooster about 50 yds. out! Let him go as it hits the ground! How many of those would it take to get him whining when he hears "dog to the line"? Same kind of deal. Expectations and anticipation.

Remember that Pavlov guy? Think about it.

JS
 
#24 · (Edited)
Let me try this. The whining is anticipation of running hard and fast for marks which is in itself rewarding. So this is not rewarded. Instead, the dog runs some blinds. The excitement and whining is not there but the reward of running after coming to the line quietly is there, thus the dog is rewarded with a run. Now the dog brings this to the line when running his marks. He has been reminded that good behavior at the line is rewarded with a run.

I think this is about what is rewarded and what isn't rewarded. Also, the behavior that is rewarded is the one that is most likely to recur---silence at the line.
 
#25 ·
We all know or have heard about great dogs owned, trained, and handled by very good trainers that are or were a handful at a trial. Its not just newbies that have issues with high dogs.

Its difficult to get that right balance of control at the line and on blinds, while not overdoing it to the point where the dog is not relaxed enough to dig out the tough marks.
 
#27 ·
Some really good answers for all who answered...and nobody even side tracked the thread..
(Owner induced noisy dogs): there are many steps prior to taking the dog to the field that help control noise issues.
(Genetically noisy dogs): The more steam you can take out of the dog prior to throwing marks the better, blinds,cheating singles,casting drills, anything to keep the dog thinking about the job he's doing right now. Pretend your dog is a 10 yr. old kid with tons of energy and your on the way to the amusement park...excitement level is off the chart, now tell him to go run 2 miles before you go to the park and the ride is more enjoyable. You can help the noise at trials too by taking the time to do exercises off trial grounds, figure out your appr. time to run and have a friend call you if something happens in the running order. Show up to run in order and the edge is already off. Again there are many steps prior to the dog doing retrieves when they are here to fix noise issues, no marks for about 6-8 weeks, strict obedience all having the dog focusing on you the owner. Randy
 
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#29 ·
Cory, it's hard initially but with time here watching and observing them you begin to put a program into the dog and see what pops out. The most recent fix just went home last week and very unsure what the cause was until I started working with him. I watched/heard this dog in derby and thought genetics BUT once he got here it was owner/stubborn induced noise. He was fixed up in about 4 weeks and turned out to be one of the easiest ones to keep quiet. On the other hand we have one of the top 3 all time noisiest dogs here in training and you need to be on top of him daily, he is a genetically noisy dog...very hard to cure.
I was helping a guy thru videos from California and so far it seems to be an owner induced noise issue because I gave him one obedience drill to do and most of the noise went away in a few days...Randy
 
#31 ·
On the other hand we have one of the top 3 all time noisiest dogs here in training and you need to be on top of him daily, he is a genetically noisy dog...very hard to cure.
I was helping a guy thru videos from California and so far it seems to be an owner induced noise issue because I gave him one obedience drill to do and most of the noise went away in a few days...Randy
Bohn man. Have you become the Non-Music Man? Eliminating trouble in River City? Keep up the good work.
 
#35 ·
My first two competitive dogs - who were littermates - FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie and FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power were a handful on the line. In part, that was due to genetics. In part, that was due to my inexperience as a handler.

Whenever I went to a field trial, I would find a field nearby and I would run pattern blinds before I ran - and after I ran. It helped take the edge off of them and make them manageable.

I have not had any dogs as wild as those two since, but I have had a few that required obedience and wagon wheel drills in the morning. I make a point of noting on my GPS the fields that I can run blinds/marks on, and the school yards, parks, etc. where I can do obedience and wagon wheel drills in the morning.
 
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