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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Example scenario...

Running dog get's a no-bird situation. The handler turns to walk off line and the dog leaves to go after the last mark down (a flyer). Handler cannot stop the dog, yells to have gunners pick up bird, and eventually has to go physically remove the dog from the flyer station on-lead.

Does the team get a re-run based upon the rules?


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Example scenario...

Running dog get's a no-bird situation. The handler turns to walk off line and the dog leaves to go after the last mark down (a flyer). Handler cannot stop the dog, yells to have gunners pick up bird, and eventually has to go physically remove the dog from the flyer station on-lead.

Does the team get a re-run based upon the rules?


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No rerun, dog broke, in all-age stakes mandatory elimination, in minor stakes brake was not controlled hence elimination
 

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Breaking for a fall for a dog under judgment by a dog still in the stake but not on line under judgment where, in the opinion of the Judges, the breaking dog or its handler interferes with the normal conduct of the stake.
That is a severe fault and the dog should be eliminated in an AA stake and if a minor stake, since the dog was not controlled it still should be eliminated.
 

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He is out. They are under judgement until he is behind the judges with his dog on leash. Even if he was behind the judges and on leash and then decided to run out, he would be out since having a handler run out to rope the critter definitely interferes with the normal conduct of the stake.
 

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Keith, would it help if you asked "what does "no bird" mean" If this doesn't help with your question than please disregard.

Bill
 

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OK, I saw this happen at an open and the gallery had much discussion. The dog was back because once it was a "no bird" it was ruled the dog was not under judgment. The dog was under control better than the scenario of the OP though.
 

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If a dog breaks, the no bird notwithstanding, it is still a break, there can be no other interpretation, the requirement for steadiness transcends any extra curricular activity.
 

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Example scenario...

Running dog get's a no-bird situation. The handler turns to walk off line and the dog leaves to go after the last mark down (a flyer). Handler cannot stop the dog, yells to have gunners pick up bird, and eventually has to go physically remove the dog from the flyer station on-lead.

Does the team get a re-run based upon the rules?


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Your example scenarios today seem very real...:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Coincidental...:)


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Ed, your answer is absolute leaving little room for dialog. What effect does a "no bird" have on any judging situation? What does it mean...not defined in the rule book. I lack your experience, knowledge and ability to comumicate but I will do my best.

As I understand it No Bird means something happened that was not the fault of the dog or handler and the judge ( either judge can call a no bird) has determined that an unfairness has occured resulting in the no bird and re-run of the dog. To me no bird then means "time out"...something happened for which everything stops. Given my interpretation of what a no bird means ( again my interpretation I am not suggesting it is the only way to define it) how does that effect a break whan no bird is called? How is the honor dog effected? Does judging continue when "no bird" is called?

Bill
 

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Section 26, last paragraph reads:

When the handler of a dog under judgment is
ordered by the Judges for any reason to pick up his
dog, he is under judgment until he is back of all the
Judges with his dog on leash, and all provisions of this
section shall apply until that time.

I believe that this includes the "No bird" situation. Therefor, the dogs action still carry the same penalty.
 

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Ed, your answer is absolute leaving little room for dialog. What effect does a "no bird" have on any judging situation? What does it mean...not defined in the rule book. I lack your experience, knowledge and ability to comumicate but I will do my best.

As I understand it No Bird means something happened that was not the fault of the dog or handler and the judge ( either judge can call a no bird) has determined that an unfairness has occured resulting in the no bird and re-run of the dog. To me no bird then means "time out"...something happened for which everything stops. Given my interpretation of what a no bird means ( again my interpretation I am not suggesting it is the only way to define it) how does that effect a break whan no bird is called? How is the honor dog effected? Does judging continue when "no bird" is called?

Bill
Hi Bill,

I know from experience that just because a judge calls "no-bird" that doesn't mean all judging comes to a halt.In an Open some time ago Yoda crept then broke just as the judge said no-bird. I quickly got him under control with a quick Sit-Heel, then went to the holding blind while the judges confered. They ruled it as a controlled break and I was out.

John
 

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BBnumber 1 gave you the rule. Similarly If a no bird is called while the dog is in the field and you are asked by the judges to pick up the dog for a rerun, you still must do so in an ordely manner as you are still under judgement. If you have to walk out into the field hollering and shouting to physically leash your dog because he will not come, you probably will not be given that rerun.

Mark
 

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As I understand it No Bird means something happened that was not the fault of the dog or handler and the judge ( either judge can call a no bird) has determined that an unfairness has occured resulting in the no bird and re-run of the dog. To me no bird then means "time out"...something happened for which everything stops. Given my interpretation of what a no bird means ( again my interpretation I am not suggesting it is the only way to define it) how does that effect a break whan no bird is called? How is the honor dog effected? Does judging continue when "no bird" is called?

Bill
Field Trial Rules and Standard Procedures for Retrievers page 27 paragraph 6

6. When coming to line to be tested, and while on line, the dog and handler should assume such positions as may be directed by the Judges.
Dogs should be considered under judgment from the time they are called to come to the line until they have left the line and are back of all the Judges and on leash.

Regardless of the occurrence(s) on line this principle applies, e.g honor dog breaks, working dog breaks, no bird for a variety of reasons the dog(s) on line are still under judgement until they are excused and behind the judges. If, while on line or leaving the line a dog breaks that act is absolute, unless there existed some extreme unforeseen and mitigating circumstances, the offending dog is eliminated. Since no birds are a part of the activity they could hardly be considered extreme or unforeseen.

The dog(s) are under judgement until they have left the area of the line and are behind the judges. Additionally "honoring" means remaining steady while another dog retrieves, it does not mean remain steady while the birds are thrown, it does not mean remaining steady when a no bird is called. To successfully complete an honor the honoring dog must remain steady while the working dog is sent for a retrieve and is then dismissed by the judges. That there are occurrences that make some honors more difficult than others due to circumstances beyond anyone's control are unfortunate but they are simply a part of the activity in which we participate.

Additionally Bill, congratulations on your Open win! As amateurs we have far too few of those opportunities.
 

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My question is what does no bird mean and how does it apply specifically to the. rules referenced

Bill
 
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