[tc2912]

How do you cure a dog of passive resistance? What I mean by passive resistance is when we attempt to send a dog on a blind; he does not want to go and does anything to delay going or not focusing on what you want. As you try to adjust for position before you send the dog, he gets up and goes pee. If he does not go pee, he looks the other way, or he will lower his head and act like he is not paying attention. He will also munch grass. Basically, he will do anything that he can in order to not go on a blind. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.

TC

 

[Howard N]

The dog's bugging. Who's and or what training program are you following?

If you aren't following any particular program, I'd suggest you get the Smartwork for Retrievers book and if you can afford it the Lardy tapes. Between the two of them and a lot of work, you should get a good handling dog.

 

[Angie B]

If your dog is properly forced on back that's exactly what I'd do. I don't care where he's looking..... :?

A dog has got to go, stop, come in and change direction. Keep it simple and discipline accordingly.

Angie

 

[tc2912]

Thank you Angie! What sort of corrections would you recommend? The dog has not been forced back to the pile, yet but if it keeps this up, he will be. The program that has been followed is Tritronic's Total Retriever Training, or something like that, along with over 20 years of dog training experience, but this is a new problem and it has not been covered in any material that I have read. Thanks again for the posts; please keep them coming.

TC

 

[hhlabradors]

The dog has not been forced back to the pile, yet but if it keeps this up, he will be.

Well, it's difficult to correct when the foundation for the dog to understand the work and the correction has not been laid.

I think you're putting too much pressure on a dog that doesn't understand either what he's supposed to do or that he has to do it. From his point of view, I don't blame him for bugging. When in doubt, give the dog the benefit of the doubt. He may genuinely be confused.

Rather than trying to put a bandaid on the problem, is it possible to go back and fill the holes in the foundation training? It might slow you down in the short run, but I think in the long run, you'd be further ahead.

 

[Chris Atkinson]

TC,

I sent you a PM and removed what I'd written here.

Angie, Howard and Eleanor are all saying the same sort of thing.

Please think consistency, fairness and standards. This feels like there's not been a logical training framework laid out for this dog, to allow him to understand what's expected next. The true problem likely does not lie in sending for blinds, but in previously untaught steps which lead up to launching a dog on blinds.

Searching for quick fixes will likely propogate the issues currently being seen.

I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, but that's how it feels to me.

You wrote in another thread that it hurts you to correct a dog. I honestly believe that part of this has to do with your own incomplete understanding of the methodoligies that go along with a program that supports fair application of electronic collar use.

* trying not to come across as too harsh *
* still trying hard to understand how to train a dog myself *

Chris

 

[Evan]

The dog has not been forced back to the pile, yet but if it keeps this up, he will be.

Well, it's difficult to correct when the foundation for the dog to understand the work and the correction has not been laid.

To me this comment is glaringly true. Far too often we tend to look for some sort of punitive cure for problems we perceive in our dogs without having provided an adequate basis upon which to make such corrections.

First, you've spoken of a dog that, as Howard aptly put it, is bugging on blinds. This is not a dog that looks out in eager anticipation of running a blind, but rather has negative, possibly even fearful expectations of them. An electric collar won't fix that.

Back way up and fix the Basics for this dog by appropriately forcing to pile. But remember force to pile, while it certainly involves the use of pressure, also involves the use of praise for compliance.

While you're doing that, be sure this dog gets plenty of marks each training day, and that most of those don't involve nit-picking, or excessive corrections. You're working on bringing up a confident attitude in your dog.

When your dog is flying to the pile, begin to teach simple fairly short pattern blinds and build a foundation for a good blind attitude. Ease into cold blinds progressively through a sound set of Transitional drills. Then you should rarely be faced with problems like this to face, and will have a solid set of tools to use when it does.

Evan

 

[Angie B]

Thank you Angie! What sort of corrections would you recommend? The dog has not been forced back to the pile, yet but if it keeps this up, he will be. The program that has been followed is Tritronic's Total Retriever Training, or something like that, along with over 20 years of dog training experience, but this is a new problem and it has not been covered in any material that I have read. Thanks again for the posts; please keep them coming.

TC

Sounds like you need a refresher course...... You missed a bunch of fundemental steps that would make your life and the life of your dogs more smoother. There is a lot of better, more progressive training material out there. Seek that out along with the help of a knowledgeable pro, and or training group. Forcing isn't rocket science but timing is crucial.

Angie

 

[hhlabradors]

I was thinking about this some more. I'm really not much of a retriever trainer, but I'm a pretty good dog trainer. There is a tendency in all aspects of dog training to think that you can "correct" that which has not been taught. (Maybe y'all ought to go get your Dead Horse Society mugs now....) You have to teach the dog not only what he's expected, but also what the correction means and how to avoid it, whether it's pet dog training, obedience training, or whatever.

You can light a dog up light a Christmas tree for refusing a recall, but if he hasn't been taught what the stim means, he's more likely to head for the hills than to come to you. That isn't a "correction," because it doesn't make the dog correct. It's not even punishment, because it doesn't decrease the incidence of the dog not coming to you. It's a reflection of the handler's lack of knowledge and inability to handle frustration. It's just abuse.

Like Chris, I don't mean to seem harsh, but "The dog has not been forced back to the pile, yet but if it keeps this up, he will be" sounds more like revenge than dog training. It's meant to be instructive, and it's important to maintain the calm, objective demeanor of a teacher. Please don't think of it as something to threaten the dog with, but look at it as a way to help him out of his (and your) jam. He needs to be taught a lesson (or some lessons) but he doesn't need to be Taught A Lesson. If it's approached that way, you may not be teaching the lesson that you're trying to teach.

 

[ducky911]

live birds

Hi

Internet advise is always a little off no one has seen the dog and you have been training for a long time so???

My guess is you have done some correction on blinds and your dog sees a mine field in front of him.

Dogs can get into a funk with some training . I have had one that would come to the line in training with her ears pinned back when faced with technical water. she smelled trouble. I have never had a dog not want to work though.

What I think could help is live birds on blinds----I trained with a guy that used a chicken on blinds and that keep his dog up with a great attitude. I would avoid any pressure on blinds for some time.

Bob

 

[tc2912]

I would like to thank everyone for posting and trying to help. I was wrong when I said the dog has not been forced to the pile. I did not know that it had been because it is not my dog. I think my friend needs to revisit force to the pile with is dog. From what I have seen, I think Bob hit it right on the head. The dog sees a mine field when it comes to blinds. If force back to the pile does not work the second time, be will have to come up with something else. Again, any help would be great. Thanks.

TC