[huntingrdr]

Hey,

I am following Lardys method and started some pile work today with my dog. Going to start at sending him to the bakc pile then later adding in the overs. I went out today and sent him to th back pile a few times, then I added in the overs and he was all confused. Should I do the back pile like for a few days then add in one over and keep the back and do those 2 piles for a few days and then add in the other over and then do them all? I think I expected way too much out of him today. He go the back pile good till I added the overs then I would say back and he look at the back pile and the over and just chose one not knowing which one to go to. So what should I do? Work on the back pile for 20 minutes a day at him sitting next to my side and on a remote sit and cast him a few times and thats it in that training session? Also it said force him to the pile by saying and giving the cast back-nick-back at the remote sit. Should I do this at my side too- say back nick back to force him or only at the remote sit?

Thanks for the help guys,
Hope this isnt too confusing

 

[[email protected]@##?]

No exactly sure about your post, but you definitely need to establish the back pile and make sure it is solid and force to the back pile from your side and get left and right rotation backs when you do stop him. I then set out the over piles but continue to just run the back pile for a few sessions before actually sending him to an over pile. Don't forget to identify the pile and move up to get thru any confusion as to piles. At first, I do 4-5 "non-stop" back pile sends for every over. Go slow, very slow . . . just my 2 cents I am sure you will get better advice soon!

 

[DRAKEHAVEN]

Have not watched the tape in a couple of years, thinking you should be lining to the pile stopping to the pile and casting both left & right backs before you put the side piles out.

If you Dawg gets confused, simplify.

Good luck.

P.S. There are NO dumb questions when it comes to dog training.
________
CL100

 

[huntingrdr]

Thought so....I am just going to slow down some. Cant expect him to learn it all in a day or two! Going to work on back pile alot more from side and casting and then add overs but continue to the back pile. Thanks for the help!

Should I use white or orange bumpers on pile work?

 

[Aussie]

Not orange. It depends on the grass/ground cover. Have a couple of bumpers leaning against others so the dogs may see them easier. Mind you, I think some dogs see orange quite well. Heck one of mine likes watching dogs and birds on TV.

Oh and remember the more pressure applied in the yard/field, the more pressure may need to be applied by your side. You want a clear head, and so does the dog. Unconditioned confused pressure is yucky. :lol:

I try not to send from my side too often. Have the dog in front. I am sunburnt and stupid so cannot remember when you call - front starts. Remotes?

 

[Sabireley]

If you are putting side piles out already, it sounds like you may be missing some information about the Lardy training program. Do you have the Lardy articles volume 1? Those are a great companion to the tapes and fill in some missing information. You can order it from totalretriever.com.

For pile work, you will establish the pile and get the dog going to it smoothly from a remote position, forcing ocassionally. You can do some side sends, but mostly remote. You need to be solid going, stopping, and coming before considering moving to the double-t, which is where the side piles come in.

For the dog to even begin to understand what to do with the side piles, you need to have done 3 handed casting and have that solid as well.

In my limited experience, pile work is no picnic. Being thorough will pay dividends later.

Last, it really helps to have an experienced trainer to work with to critique what you are doing and to help solve problems. If you are not a member already, see if you can join a retriever club in your area. You will meet some nice people, learn a lot, and have fun.

Good Luck!

Steve

 

[muddyriver]

I was going to ask the same questions. One really need to make sure that the dog is doing 3-hand casting very well before attempting the double T. I was also wondering if he did force-to-pile. I'm doing the double T right now and I spent well over a week just on the back pile. I would make a note that in the Lardy video he mentioned to turn down the e-collar slightly. I kept it at the same setting and produced some problems like you see and FTP. It took a long time to get her excitment back up and confidence. Don't work into it to fast. The slower you start the faster the finish. I'm amazed how my dog is clicking with the double T. I'm ready to add the 2 set of legs to it and she never skipped a beat on the first introduction exept you could tell she was over thinking things a little, but with some attrition and light collar correction we are running fine. Trust me take your time!!!!

 

[GG]

here is an article i wrote many, many years ago, it is beneth your level of expertise but may offer and attitude or a positive structure
GG
TEACHING DOGS TO TAKE HAND SIGNALS
Now that you've completed teaching the "back" command it's time to teach the dog to take the left and right hand overs along with stopping on the whistle. Make an effort to find an area that is at least 60 yards long and 40 yards wide; if no such area can be found whatever you have will have to do. Imagine that you are on a baseball diamond, you will be standing on the pitchers mound in the beginning. Use home plate as the back pile, the right over will be third base and the left over will be first base. If you are working in a different area than where the back command was taught it's best to identify this back pile as you did before. After the back pile has been established, begin with the dog working from your left side. Hold your hand over the top of his head with your fingers pointing at the pile of bumpers. Send him on the back command to the pile of bumpers at home plate; One very important rule to follow is: you should do at least two backs for every over; the back pile must remain solid. As the dog is returning with the second bumper retrieved from the back pile do not allow him to come to heel, stop him in the facing position in front of you by blowing a sharp blast on your whistle and saying sit: this is the beginning of teaching the dog to sit on the whistle. Do whatever it takes to make the dog sit about 2 feet in front of you. Take the bumper from his mouth and throw it about 15 yds. towards third base making the dog sit as you do so. Gesture with you right hand towards the thrown bumper and say over. The dog should eagerly retrieve the bumper; if he does not throw another bumper immediately and make him retrieve the bumper. After the dog has retrieved the bumper bring him to the heel position and send him to the back pile twice before stopping him in the facing position with the sit whistle again. Now throw the bumper about 15 yds. towards first base then gesture with your left hand and say over. If you run into any problems simplify to the point the dog performs the proper command. Practice this drill day after day until the dog completely understands what it is you expect. Once the dog has learned where the overs are located you now put about three bumpers at each over position. Do two backs then stop the dog in front of you and give him an over, after the dog is doing the drill flawlessly begin moving your position to the rear towards second base a little each day. When the dog has no problem doing the backs from the second base position it's time to teach him to sit on the whistle at a distance. Since you have stopped him with the whistle many times at the pitchers mound while teaching the overs hopefully he will remember and stop when you blow your whistle from second base. If he does stop, cast him to either over position. If he does not simplify by moving forward. You'll find that the baseball drill is lots of fun once the dog gets the hang of it. Any drill that you do will increase communication between man (or woman) and dog and will eventually lead to a good hunting experience.
If at any time training becomes so frustrating that it no longer is fun, throw the dog a happy bumper and end training for the day.
have fun training