The critical difference between the two is that the short retired bird is seen as a mark; the other is a planted hazard.I do realize in some cases the planted poison bird could be unfair because the wind sometimes changes direction. But this is true in any all-age test, the wind changes slightly and dogs may not wind a short retired gun.
So what? The dog isn't supposed to be under controll if the scent is from an unexpected source? Don't we often run bilinds in the field where they just ran the marks and use those old fall areas, or even flier crates as suction? What's the differnece? As long as the hazard is known to all, and the handler has a chance to handle the dog there, what's the problem?K G said:The critical difference between the two is that the short retired bird is seen as a mark; the other is a planted hazard.I do realize in some cases the planted poison bird could be unfair because the wind sometimes changes direction. But this is true in any all-age test, the wind changes slightly and dogs may not wind a short retired gun.
That's the problem, the good dogs do find the bird, with the handler having no opportunity to instruct the dog before the dog is sent to leave it alone.Doug Main said:....Try hunting in a public area, sometime. My dogs have found MANY birds that we didn't know were there.......
Gerard Rozas said:The discussion I participated in on Saturday with a couple of pros, at least 4 8pt judges and 1 AKC rep over burgers and fries focused on this very issue.
The problem area that hit a nerve with most supporters of a rule change was a retrievable dead bird, unseen and planted on route to the blind. No one had a problem with a true poison bird, scented area or point, or an old fall.
The main underlying concern was that a "leave it" bird was simply a trap to eliminate dog, esp as close to the line as we are seeing these birds recently.
Still have not made up my mind on this one yet.
If not directly on the Fairway to the blind—Why, if the scented area or point would have a bird planted in it or on it ... would it then present a special class of problem vs. a "surprise"scented area without one :?:No one had a problem with a true poison bird, scented area or point, or an old fall.
Would it then be OK to have a bird in or on those areas staked down and out of sight. . . in a camo bag
What's the difference between scenting an area, like the backside of a point, after every 4 or 5 dogs vs. putting birds there so that it remains scented?Mitch Patterson said:Leave birds lying around in the field; hang them from trees like Christmas decorations and you’re just tricking the dogs. It’s not hard to trick a retriever
Here we are talking about blinds, not marks. And it is not wild game where it would be encounted for one dog and not the rest, rather a planted bird which would be there for all the dogs. But, shouldn't the all-age dog be "sufficiently under control to be 'handled'" to the blind despite such distractions? I certainly think so.(8) The encountering of wild birds, rabbits, or other
game by the working dog also presents a problem, and
sometimes creates great inequalities. Dogs, particularly
in All-Age stakes, should ignore such distractions or be
sufficiently under control to be “handled’’ to the “fall.’’