[AmiableLabs]

What do you believe and practice?

Should retriever puppies be CERFed before sale? Isn't it important for a puppy buyer to know ahead of time if the puppy is going to have problems seeing and marking falls before they bring it home to their family and become emotionally attached?

Or is it not important to CERF the puppies as long as both parents have had their eyes checked?

Other opinions?

 

[hhlabradors]

All breeds?

 

[YardleyLabs]

My opthalmologist doesn't like to CERF pups before they are 8 weeks old -- one week after they have left for new homes in most cases. I do offer it on pups that are being shipped but charge the purchaser the additional cost. I have all pups examined in detail at six weeks, including eyes, but that is not by an ACVO.

 

[Julie R.]

Isn't it important for a puppy buyer to know ahead of time if the puppy is going to have problems seeing and marking falls before they bring it home to their family and become emotionally attached?

Well...yes but what if they get emotionally attached and it can't mark worth a darn because it's slow, lazy, dumb, etc.? Or gets hit by a car, gets parvo and dies, or, or, or....

It isn't commonly done in my breed and I understand the main reason to check Labs at such a young age is for retinal folds but I don't think it's necessary to CERF them if the puppy guarantee offers a vet check during that first week or so. That way if someone has had bad luck before they have the option to get the eyes (or anything else they're concerned about) checked themselves.

 

[AmiableLabs]

My opthalmologist doesn't like to CERF pups before they are 8 weeks old -- one week after they have left for new homes in most cases.

Our ACVO does it at six weeks.

Kind of scary as a breeder. Sitting there on all these homes and deposits, knowing if one or more puppies fail, in all likelihood returning deposits and beginning a search for pet homes.

But if that is what it means to be "responsible". . . . :?

 

[Swampcollie]

All breeds?
I don't think so. But in breeds that carry possible problems that can be caught with an early CERF exam, by all means do so.

 

[AmiableLabs]

Well...yes but what if they get emotionally attached and it can't mark worth a darn because it's slow, lazy, dumb, etc.? Or gets hit by a car, gets parvo and dies, or, or, or....

Or gets HD?

I anticipated that question. You do what you can with what you have now. If there was a test for HD or parvo or whatever before the sale, wouldn't it be important to do those too? Just because we can't test for those, doesn't mean we shouldn't test the eyes.

 

[SueLab]

If you want to place pups in homes where they can be successful, then why would you not CERF? If a pup has a few folds, that doesn't necessarily mean that the dog cannot see. If something comes up in the CERF exam that indicates that the vision is impaired, do you want that pup to go to a competition home?

It is just one less thing that I don't have to worry about when the pups leave my house. If they CERF clear at 6.5 weeks, so much the better. If not, reduce the price or sell to a non competitive home (or a different competition home) where the pup will be successful.

How can you assess whether you got the type of dogs that you want to bred if you don't CERF. Would you just prefer dealing only with those owners who do CERF their dogs and really not care about the other pups?

 

[ErinsEdge]

The opthalmologist I go to can't understand why others won't CERF early. She says they are easier to do.

 

[hhlabradors]

All breeds?
I don't think so. But in breeds that carry possible problems that can be caught with an early CERF exam, by all means do so.

That's what I thought, but then, I can't answer the poll.

 

[NateB]

If you want to place pups in homes where they can be successful, then why would you not CERF? If a pup has a few folds, that doesn't necessarily mean that the dog cannot see. If something comes up in the CERF exam that indicates that the vision is impaired, do you want that pup to go to a competition home?

Dogs can have a significant amount or RD in the retina and still mark fine. There is a nationally titled dog that has geographic lesions. CERFing early is not really to check for vision. Some will have serious issues but mostly it is for information for the BREEDER. Pups that are RD carriers can have folds as a young pup that will go away. Then later the CERF will be normal and the carrier state will be missed. By CERFing early we can catch those dogs and help to establish lines of clear and carrrier dogs.

One wrench in all this though is that pups with normal eyes and genetics can have a few folds but NOT be RD carriers, it takes a ACVO with a lot of experience to tell the difference. My ACVO does all my pups at 6-7 weeks of age, it s part of my package price, along with vaccs and microchips. I would not buy a pup without a CERF, if I did I would have a deal with the breeder that it would be CERFed as soon as I had it and if there were any issues we would have an agreement prior.

 

[Lisa S.]

Many if not all puppy purchasers in my dealings are happy that exam was done before they went to their new homes.
I expect that any depositer whose pup hadn't passed would be disappointed, yet happy they found out before he went to their home. They would still have the opportunity to buy the pup at a reduced price with limited registration.

 

[Targander]

I would never sell a puppy without having them checked by an opthamologist...period. Then again, I would never buy one without it being seen BEFORE 8 week of age either.

My opthalmologist doesn't like to CERF pups before they are 8 weeks old -- one week after they have left for new homes in most cases. I do offer it on pups that are being shipped but charge the purchaser the additional cost. I have all pups examined in detail at six weeks, including eyes, but that is not by an ACVO.

Why doesn't your opthmologist like to CERF (or at least do a CERF exam) before 8 weeks?

Why would you charge an additional cost, when we as Breeders know very well that there are MANY "inherited" eye problems with our breed? Is it becouse you can sell your pups cheaper? I guess I honestly don't understand this line of thinking :?

I would think that anyone who breeds would be very interested in this important information, especially for their Breeding Program: Future/Past and Present.

 

[Latisha]

My opthalmologist doesn't like to CERF pups before they are 8 weeks old -- one week after they have left for new homes in most cases. I do offer it on pups that are being shipped but charge the purchaser the additional cost. I have all pups examined in detail at six weeks, including eyes, but that is not by an ACVO.

My ACVO says the best time to examine puppies is 6-6.5 weeks. And pups don't leave here until after 8 weeks at the very earliest.

It is not common practice in my breed to CERF pups before they are sent home. I chose to do it, because A) I have access to a great ACVO nearby, and B) there are a lot of things that can be caught on an early CERF. Retinal folds are the main reason it is done early in Labs. But there are other things that can be detected early like PPM and CEA. I, for one, would want that information for my files. And while I hope that puppy owners would continue with CERF's in the future, it is also possible that will be the only CERF exam the pup may ever get. So, I might as well take the opportunity while I can. If there was a way to get puppy prelims on hips and elbows before I sent them home, I would do that too.

Latisha

 

[SueLab]

Cute pup Latisha!

 

[SueLab]

I think that this poll would be interesting to see the results if posed: 1. as a breeder or 2. as a purchaser...I'm guessing the % might change...

 

[Bill Schuna]

This issue came up when I bought my present Labrador. A friend of mine urged me to have her examined by an opthalmologist. He had experience with dwarf Lab puppies from one or two of the litters he had. Back then, (70's?), no one knew about the fold connection to RD/Dwarfism from what I understand. Needless to say, I was just a bit concerned and made an appointment.

The breeder I purchased my dog from said she'd honor the guarantee if the pup didn't pass. I was on pins and needles during the exam, but in the end, all was fine.

Since then, my dog has had one litter, and yes, we made a visit to the eye vet so the new owners didn't have to concern themselves with this. All the pups passed, but what if one or more didn't? I was not prepared to deal with that, but would have.

One lesson learned is the immense amount of time, effort, worry, and dedication that breeders commit themselves to. In for a penny...in for a pound. Hats off to ya.

I would never again purchase a Lab pup without the breeder taking care of the exam.

There, I'll get off my soap-box now.

Bill

 

[Last Frontier Labs]

CERF the puppies.

 

[2Blackdogs!]

I been wondering about doing cerf that early- i thought it would only have real value if the dog already had a permanent ID like a chip. But if the plan is to release the pups to new homes at 6 to 7 weeks it just seems too young to do the implants. Or are you guys that do cerf so young just having it done without reporting it? As far as ofa goes i thought it was totally usless to do that stuff this young as the bones are so so far from developed...thats why it is done at 2.

 

[badbullgator]

Right now 72% say the SHOULD be done, but how many of that 72% actually do it?