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Do you let a Master handler run his dogs wearing black leather gloves?

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Discussion Starter #1
Scenario: Just your average Master test. Weather conditions are sunny, and temps are in the high-70s.

A handler comes to the line wearing black leather gloves identical to those that FTers are so fond of using.

Do you make him take off the gloves or let him wear them at the line?
 

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As long as they were "dark or camoflauge clothing", and they werent specifically bieng used as a training device.
Other than that what basis could you possibly have to ask the handler to remove thier gloves?

:?
 

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Black Gloves/Hunt Tests

I don't have a problem with it. I do know that most handlers coming to the line wearing gloves do it for the same reason trialers wear them. However, I don't really think that in 'most' HT situations wearing black gloves as a distance/contrast/dog vision aid is necessary. I think those that wear them are just taking the 'dark' attire reg's to the fullest. Gloves aren't going to help a 'poor' handling dog handle at a 100 yards...period, and it just isn't a big deal if they wear gloves when I judge.

We did have the judges at the 2nd MN (TN/'92...Glenda, you'll remember this one) tell the handlers that "NO GLOVES" would be allowed. I do think that judges 'should' be able to govern the use of wearing black gloves if they have a problem with it. We all know why they are worn. By the way, I do wear black shooting gloves when duck hunting, nuff said!

I once asked a friend (pro) that was wearing black gloves on an 80 degree day if his hands were cold? He knew what I was getting at and he was quick to come back with "he had to wear them as he was allergic to ducks feathers." Yeah right!!! I've judged with him in the past and he didn't wear gloves as he took birds from the handlers. Guess he wasn't allergic at that time 8).
 
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Who cares???

This is so nit-picky. I don't wear gloves, but for God's sake, what's the big deal???

-Kristie
 

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I haven't seen a pair of gloves yet that can help a dog mark a triple.

I also have not witnessed a noticable different when I judge in the handling performance of dogs where the handler was wearing gloves, where I believed the gloves were the key to success.

/Paul
 

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You can see the problem in the poll results. Most are ok with it (as of this writing), but some do not allow it. Really doesnt matter to me, but if pros think it helps, then I am of the opinion that it probably does. Sounds like a question that needs to be addressed at the national level.
I often wear black neoprene golves while hunting. So it would seem to be ok with me.
 

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When training I usually wear black gloves because I wear them in the field trials I enter. My collar transmitter is usually in my back pocket and the dogs never sees it while on line. What is the big deal is someone wants to wear black gloves? You are allowed to wear dark clothing, why not black gloves? In no way shape or form can black gloves be considered training equipment. What if an African-American was running his dog. Would you require him/her to wear white gloves?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
kristie said:
Who cares??? This is so nit-picky. I don't wear gloves, but for God's sake, what's the big deal???
I care. Look at the results so far. It is like clipper said, some allow it, some are against it. I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, but for some judges it is.

I was training Belle yesterday on a 200 yard water blind. (Granted, that is not a distance we would see in an AKC HT.) I was wearing a green shirt, standing in the shadows along the shore in front of green bushes. There were casts she was not able to see, and I couldn't help but wish I had my black gloves on.

Some judges fear that unscrupulous trainers/handlers will make the gloves not only a "training tool" but also an instrument of enforcement. But trainers that are determined to shirk the rules will find some way of doing it anyway. In HRC I knew a trainer that ear-pinched with the keys on his keychain, so all that he had to do to aid in control was jiggle his keys in his pocket.

Sure, it is very unlikely that a handler would ever need to use black gloves at HT distances. But if I am wearing camo, standing in the shadows in front of a green background, I know I would be a lot more comfortable wearing mine.
 

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The biggest intimidation tool that can be used in training and is required in handling is the gun. Carrying the gun can legally be intimidating on marks. That said, it behooves the handler to do anything to help his dog on a blind that is not intimidating. I have seen light calfskin gloves which "may" bother some judges. Judge what you see in the field and don't worry about black gloves being used to look like a transmitter.
 
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AmiableLabs said:
kristie said:
Who cares??? This is so nit-picky. I don't wear gloves, but for God's sake, what's the big deal???
I care. Look at the results so far. It is like clipper said, some allow it, some are against it. I agree it shouldn't be a big deal, but for some judges it is.

I was training Belle yesterday on a 200 yard water blind. (Granted, that is not a distance we would see in an AKC HT.) I was wearing a green shirt, standing in the shadows along the shore in front of green bushes. There were casts she was not able to see, and I couldn't help but wish I had my black gloves on.

Some judges fear that unscrupulous trainers/handlers will make the gloves not only a "training tool" but also an instrument of enforcement. But trainers that are determined to shirk the rules will find some way of doing it anyway. In HRC I knew a trainer that ear-pinched with the keys on his keychain, so all that he had to do to aid in control was jiggle his keys in his pocket.

Sure, it is very unlikely that a handler would ever need to use black gloves at HT distances. But if I am wearing camo, standing in the shadows in front of a green background, I know I would be a lot more comfortable wearing mine.
First, if you were training, why the heck weren't you wearing a handler's jacket? Esp on a 200 yard, "non hunt-test" blind? Do you honestly think black gloves would have saved you? I would bet they would have made very little difference.

Second, I could make my dog scared of "good dog", scared of my petting him, scared of every step I take. I could also make them scared of my CAMO shirt or my HANDLERS GUN << I know PLENTY of people who do that! I've even heard of people who wire prods up to them -- stupid, stupid, stupid. Even more scary, I ran a hunt test where I held a black painted fake gun with a "candy cane" pattern that was unpainted. I asked "what the heck is this?" and the judge said "that's where the wires were run down to add the prod."

For God's sake, you can make a dog scaredof anything. People who train that way aren't very bright in my opinion and will get what's coming to them in the end. People who train adversively and who are heavy on intimidation can come up with plenty of more creative ways to scare the hell out of their dog.

I don't see prohibiting wearing gloves as accomplishing ANYTHING. If you want to prohibit gloves, then you had best start a campaign to get rid of the handler's gun. Besides the "prod attachment", I'm sure there are just plenty of people who beat the hell out of their dogs with a fake gun. They should be ashamed. It's a lack of training ability and lack of willingness to teach and reinforce properly, or maybe a short temper, that lead to that.

-Kristie
 

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Discussion Starter #11
kristie said:
First, if you were training, why the heck weren't you wearing a handler's jacket?
Long story. :?

You can make a dog scared of anything.
My point exactly.

But so there is no misunderstanding by anyone reading this, I want to wear gloves and have been told by judges to take them off, so now I don't even bother putting them on at tests.
 
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AmiableLabs said:
kristie said:
First, if you were training, why the heck weren't you wearing a handler's jacket?
Long story. :?

You can make a dog scared of anything.
My point exactly.

But so there is no misunderstanding by anyone reading this, I want to wear gloves and have been told by judges to take them off, so now I don't even bother putting them on at tests.
I actually have a really nice pair of gloves a client gave me that I WANT to wear, but always forget to wear. For me, it's just a matter of keeping my hands clean. I prefer that oh-so-fresh smell to nasty duck that doesn't come off with repeated washings. But I always forget to wear them.

My concern is when there's this micromanagement. There's so many bigger fish to fry. And if a judge is worried about intimidation, then they had best have handlers strip naked (although that could be scary, too) before they come to the line and have them hold NOTHING and make some sort of whistle that's like those turkey calls that fit in your mouth...

-Kristie
 

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I've never understood why clothing has anything to do with whether or not the dog can do the test, other than making the handler visible when it becomes necessary to handle the dog.

Isn't being visible sorta the point?

"Look at ME and I'll tell you where the bird is. Don't look at the two Judges, the Marshall, the guy in the holding blind, the gallery, and PLEASE don't look at Shayne!!! Just look at me".

I would bet that ANY hunter would pull out anything to help his/her dog find that first Canadian Goose!!!

Jerry
 

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Jerry

You know Jerry,

Sometimes you just make too much sense.

Who cares what you wear. Let the dog have an opportunity to see the handler whatever the case may be.

Hell, let Angie B. wear a bright floresent pink bikini if she wants.
 

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Re: Jerry

Ken Guthrie said:
You know Jerry,

Sometimes you just make too much sense.

Who cares what you wear. Let the dog have an opportunity to see the handler whatever the case may be.

Hell, let Angie B. wear a bright floresent pink bikini if she wants.
:D :D :D So have you paid my fee for the Canadian Hunt yet, my newest "very best friend"?????? :D :D
 

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Jerry

Jerry,

I am gonna try to raise the money for you through sponsorships.

So far, I think Budweiser will give $1.00 for every beer you drink between now and then. What do you think that will come too?

If that ain't enough money to cover the trip, then I will think of something else.
 

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What about tan-colored gloves? :?:

What about dogs that view the glove as a retrieve object/reward?

What about people (me) who have to take immunosuppresents from time to time? I can't handle poulty of any kind during those times, as I am prone to infection. :?

Guess I could sue the judges under the ADA? :D

Lisa
 

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Re: Jerry

Ken Guthrie said:
Jerry,

I am gonna try to raise the money for you through sponsorships.

So far, I think Budweiser will give $1.00 for every beer you drink between now and then. What do you think that will come too?

If that ain't enough money to cover the trip, then I will think of something else.
:D :D If they will donate a dollar a beer I'll guarantee it will be a free hunt for everbody!!!!! :D :D

Jerry
 
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