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If you were to get to a Seasoned test and were told you had to begin the test laying in a layout bli

  • Say, "Are these guys nuts? I won't come back to this test!"

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If you were to arrive at an HRC SEASONED handlers' meeting and were told the morning/afternoon hunt would be a goose hunt, AND you were told you had to lay/sit/kneel in an OPEN layout field blind with your dog outside the blind at your side, how would you react? I'm anxious to see the responses to this one!

Note: Assume it's an early spring test.

Rob
 

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test

I think it would make a cool FINISHED test, should the I want to run my dog on a test where I, too, feel like I'm hunting.

The aspect of the testing a dog's ability in a goose hunt is what the game is for. The aspect of convincing the dog we are actually goose hunting is not so good of an ideal when it comes to items such as ground blinds, pits, etc.

its important to keep a hunt test very similar to actual hunting for whatever location you've setup, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect all my fellow participants to have the physical ability to kneel/lay/sit in a ground blind. When it comes to running my dog, I'm fortunate enough to have young age and maneuverability on my side, but I wouldn't want to go along with something that would cause problems for a fellow handler attempting to run his/her dog, when its an easily avoidable item.

for what its worth, I'd keep the layout present, but with a bucket like usual. let the handlers sit/stand, so as to offer unrestricted ability to handle his/her dog.
 

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Well, let me tell you this -- I ran a AKC Senior Test which is a loose equivalent of an HRC Seasoned.

We had to lay down in the layout blind, call our duck calls, and wave a goose flag over our dog's head. We were not allowed to talk to our dogs while the birds were in the air, and were not allowed to stand up until the judges called for the dog (both are normal rules). If we tried to stand up without sending the dog, and the dog took off because of our movement, it was considered a break.

After the dog made the retrieves we had to do a remote honor, half the way down the line to the flyer, we stood inside a blind, while the dog sat outside. We were not released until the working dog had ran by our dog in the process of retrieving the flyer.

When it was over, we all agreed it would have made a pretty decent Master test (loose equivalent to an HRC Finished).
 

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PURPOSE AND PHILOSOPHY

This hunt test is for Seasoned Hunting Retrievers and Handlers. It duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the local area. Judges will look for style and natural ability and evidence that the Seasoned Hunting Retriever exhibits a reasonable degree of control. These hunting tests have longer retrieves on both water and land than Started Tests. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever must be steady on line and retrieve to hand. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever in these hunting tests usually has a couple of seasons of hunting experience, and more training. - HRC Rule Book

I think the above answers the question. If hunting out of a layout blind duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the local area then it is a good and fair test. If you set that up in seasoned here in SC I would say you are crazy but would enjoy the chalange. Layout blinds are not common down here. I would think in the mid west it would be fair.
Scott
 

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COOL!!!!!!!!!!

I think it would be great since I goose hunt and have a finisher blind. If I didn't I might not be so happy when I pulled in and saw a camo coffin on the ground.

Went to an AKC HT this weekend and in master they setup a remote and a lot of people were suprised and several dogs went out for breaking since they had not trained for it.

Both of these situations are a normal part of hunting. My "seasoned" dog who would of had a couple of years of experiance would of seen both of these situations.
 

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I'm wit' them what are for keeping the "hunt" in the Hunting Retriever Club - or inserting hunt where it's been missing. And I'd think working from beside a layout blind should be among the least of a Seasoned dog's challenges.

Dog that has to work from beside a bucket or the Mickey Mouse "blinds" seen in most hunt tests is anything but "seasoned" from a hunting perspective.
 

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My first thought was Cool - that would be fun. Then I thought about what the handlers would say - and it probably wouldn't be nice. But the Seasoned test is suppose to be like the area of the country that you are currently in.

I'll be judging Seasoned in May out in Lubbock at the new Texas Panhandle HRC and boy does that give me some ideas.

DKR - got any goose shells - :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the replies. I didn't say this initially because I didn't want to sway opinions on the issue. BUT, here is what Rob New thinks:

These are SEASONED dogs. Some of them probably under a year old. We don't train with a layout blind. Remember the old saying: "Train like you test?" Well, I have NEVER heard of anyone training out of layout blind.

My thinking is that handlers would think this test was WAY OVER THE TOP for a Seasoned dog. And I, for one, agree with them. Seasoned tests are for marking and memory, control and obedience. You can test those traits without sitting in a layout blind in a field. Just my opinion.
 

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ladylabtrainer said:
I'll be judging Seasoned in May out in Lubbock at the new Texas Panhandle HRC and boy does that give me some ideas.

DKR - got any goose shells - :wink:
Patti,

Shells, siloettes (sp), full body, rags, assorted blinds

Your wish is my command. :wink:

Don
 

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"This hunt test is for Seasoned Hunting Retrievers and Handlers. It duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the local area."

Guess if most of the hunting in your area is off buckets...

Training as you test best serves the hunter and his dog when they also test as they hunt. Would really hate to see the HRC drift away from that ideal and become just another trainers' game.
 

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I have run senior test with layout blinds (a goose chair) and have seen mojo-duks as well. We had success at both tests. I believe that at the intermediate (Senior, Seasoned, etc.) level props should be kept to a minimum. Let the increase in trained abilities above Started or Junior be the cornerstone of testing, not the props.

Joe Miano
 

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I have run seasoned tests out of a goose chair and wouldn't have a problem with a layout blind.

I think the important part of your original post is that the blind is OPEN, thus no sudden shock ot the layout flying open to scare the bejesus out of the dog.

Props are good as long as they don't take away from the "testing" aspect.

Cool props do not make a good test on its own.

Ken
 

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I think it would be a cool test!!!!!!!!!!!!! For a dog that is ready to run seasoned it shouldn't be a big problem. While judging seasoned you always have a few dogs that have just gotton their started title a week or two ago and the handler thinks it's time to move on up and the dog is just not ready in many cases. Those dogs could sure have a problem, but I'm not going to lower the seasoned standerd of my test to acommodate a dog and handler that are not ready. I do not set up seasoned tests that are unrealistic by any means, but if your retriever passes my seasoned test you have a seasoned retriever. That is what we are testing for. In a test like we are talking about I WOULD give more leway to the seasoned team in reguard to line maners and controlled breaks and I would make the marks long enough, no in your face marks, so as to not incourage breaking.

2blackdogs
 

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2blackdogs said:
I think it would be a cool test!!!!!!!!!!!!! For a dog that is ready to run seasoned it shouldn't be a big problem. While judging seasoned you always have a few dogs that have just gotton their started title a week or two ago and the handler thinks it's time to move on up and the dog is just not ready in many cases. Those dogs could sure have a problem, but I'm not going to lower the seasoned standerd of my test to acommodate a dog and handler that are not ready. I do not set up seasoned tests that are unrealistic by any means, but if your retriever passes my seasoned test you have a seasoned retriever. That is what we are testing for. In a test like we are talking about I WOULD give more leway to the seasoned team in reguard to line maners and controlled breaks and I would make the marks long enough, no in your face marks, so as to not incourage breaking.

2blackdogs

I couldn't possibly come up with anything that would answer this question any better.

The only area I'd give consideration to an "early spring test" would be for the possible lack of water to train in, and would factor that into my setup.

UB
 

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My second seasoned test I ever ran, as well as second hunt test ever ran was in South Carolina and the Seasones Land Test was run as a Snow Goose setup. I watched some woman with a Curly Coat poop egg rolls when she got out of the truck and saw 500 white rags dancin in the breeze, we also ran out of layouts. I was just like, "ok, my fine pooch from the Paper, let's see whatcha think about all this" :lol: It was interesting to say the least, but I think it was a fine setup, these are "Hunt Tests" designed to replicate actual hunting conditions so I don't see why not.

Whats the difference between a layout blind setup and getting to the water and its a Timber hunt and you have to wade out into the water and shoot off a treestand (other than the quasi remote sit in the layout)? Its actual hunting conditions, and it never fails, there are always folks who dont own waders who bitch about having to wade into the timber, and "we dont hunt this way" I always get a chuckle out of that.
:wink:
 

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Rob,

I strongly support you scenario.

I think the handler on the bucket and dog right next to them has gotten out of hand. We are supposed to be testing hunting dogs. Dogs that can function in a hunting environment. Seasoned means to me, the dog has been seasoned and hunted. I think it is a shame some hunting dogs cannot function unless they are directly beside the handler. The purpose and philosophy of HRC is to test hunting dogs under true to life hunting situations. One can play devils advocate all they want about we need to test this and that and not trick the dog with hunting gimmicks etc. HRC should be true to life, within reason. It is not unreasonable to use actual duck/goose blinds for the seasoned retriever or finished retriever. To not is watering down the titles.

We should be in a situation where when you tell someone you have a seasoned HRC dog, they welcome you to hunt in their duckblind or goosepit because an HRC dog is a hunting dog and not just a great test dog!

Rob, you will see at our test: decoys, duckblinds and other effects to clearly distinguish our test from any other testing organization. And not just because we shoot from the line.

Lastly, I believe there are provisions for handicapped or otherwise individuals that cannot physically meet the demands of the proposed scenario. Therefore, I don't think, the experience should be compromised because the possibility exists someone may show up that cannot bend or lie down flat on their back.

great question,

Rick
 

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BamaK9 - I would have a problem with a snow goose set-up in seasoned on SC. This past year on the local refuges they only reported 1 snow goose. I do not think that qualifies as local hunting conditions! I could see it in finished.
"This hunt test is for Seasoned Hunting Retrievers and Handlers. It duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the local area." -HRC Rule book
 
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